Idaho Governor Otter? You should DIE

WolfeMacleod · 08-02-2007, 04:53 PM

This makes me want to vomit. This makes me want to KILL

And farck Wyoming, too.
This pisses me of. Seriously, seriously pissed me off.
play the video...read the site.

I sent him a nastygram. I expect to be contacted. And maybe hauled away.

https://secure2.convio.net/dow/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=789

island911 · 08-02-2007, 05:01 PM

I don't think he means he wants to shoot you, just because of your name... but I could be wrong.

on-ramp · 08-02-2007, 05:04 PM

what about all the cows, chickens, and hog slaughtered each day? do you care about THOSE animals?

island911 · 08-02-2007, 05:05 PM

Oh, wait . . . Gov. Otter, eh?

So it's okay if a wolf kills an otter . . but not okay if an otter kills a wolf?

Wacky.

pwd72s · 08-02-2007, 05:07 PM

Kinda funny that the folks who want to save wolves don't have to live where they are...Lemme clue ya...even though they look like German Shepherds? They aren't....ask any cattleman, or a sheep rancher.

RoninLB · 08-02-2007, 05:11 PM

i read the letter at the posted site.

worth the read.

WolfeMacleod · 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by on-ramp

what about all the cows, chickens, and hog slaughtered each day? do you care about THOSE animals?

No. Those are FOOD. I have no problem with people killing for FOOD.
But, to kill wildlife just because "it's in my way" is just plain WRONG.
What's next? Kill the whales because they eat our salmon? I posted another video here recently that I found amusing, but annoying. man catches fich. Whale eats fish. man says "You took my fish!" ExCUSE me? Whos fish?

If you raise cattle and the wolf kills your cattle, perhaps you should MOVE. or raise CARROTS. Or, perhaps you sholud watch your cattle a bit closer.

If I had the smack, I'd be buying up huge plots of land, and raising cattle there myself. As food for those who have no other way to survive.
They're doing what they do. They're hunters. They're predators. Don't raise prey in predator land. Common sense, eh?

It's been proven that the recordings and playback of wolf packs can keep another wolf pack at bay, because they think there is a rival pack nearby. Perhaps they should try it.

I'm no PETA nutcase. I eat meat. lots of it. I love meat. But I also love wildlife. And there's one species that I am particularly fond of. And particularly protective of.

They build these houses in the woods and then people complain about the Wildlife. The animals were there long before people were. Now they have a problem with it? Tough crap!

WolfeMacleod · 08-02-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Kinda funny that the folks who want to save wolves don't have to live where they are...Lemme clue ya...even though they look like German Shepherds? They aren't....ask any cattleman, or a sheep rancher.

I am very famillliar with wolves. I'd love to live in a heavily populated area. I did grow up near one, in fact. A three legged Grey Wolf that was hit by a car. Slept in my bed, ate my cat. Just doing what she did.

Jeff Higgins · 08-02-2007, 05:33 PM

There is no easy answer to this situation that will satisfy everyone involved. Wolves are both beautiful, majestic animals, and very serious predators that can cause lasting economic harm. Both sides of the wolf argument overstate their case and the moderates in the middle get drowned out.

It seems an axiom that the folks most interested in wolf (or brown bear, for that matter) recovery do not live with them. Notice the organization that hosts that site is based in Washington, DC. They themselves disclose that most of their funding comes from urban population centers. People that have no first-hand experience in living with animals like these, in trying to run their lives and their businesses (be they cattle or sheep ranchers, horse breeders, etc.) in the presence of large predators. These "wolf romantics" have a very clouded view, a very romanticized view, of what these animals really are and what they represent.

On the other end of the spectrum is the rural landowner/businessman that will tell you the only good wolf is a dead wolf. They have an unnatural fear of them bred by their own sometimes inbred societies. Most have never, and will never see one, even within the recovery zones and next to the park. Yet they are convinced they will suffer irrecoverable losses, up to and including their land, if so much as one traipses accross it.

The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. Wolves can be successfully re-introduced into areas they once roamed. The key is to allow local policing and control of the populations and, perhaps most importantly, local oversight in dealing with problem animals. Once a wolf, or any large predator, starts preying upon domestic livestock, it simply must be killed, and killed now. The locals currently do not enjoy the authority to do so; control resides a continent away, with zealots who care more about the wolf than any one family's livelyhood.

An aquaintance is a rancher living near the park. He has lost some livestock to wolves. He is rather philosophical about it, as he loves wolves, and represents the moderate voice being drowned out. He attempted in every case to "prove" that wolves had killed the animal in question. The federal government offers compensation for losses due to wolves, at least in theory, but it is up to the rancher to prove it was a wolf. Short of a wildlife officer actually witnessing the kill, that is all but impossible. He even had an officer with him one day when they were lucky enough to chase a few off of a kill. The officer's position? "They are scavengers, too, and will feed on carion given the opportunity." It's that kind of nonsense that has even some of the moderates concerned. He has never been compensated for a wolf kill. He will go to jail if he kills one, even if it is in the act of killing one of his animals. I can very much sense his frustration over this issue.

The moderates will decide this one. They will choose sides. Like my acquaintance, I would bet many of them are frustrated. They see nothing worse than some far-detached "city slickers" enforcing their ideals from afar. I would hate to see the protectionist zealots once again create enemies and wind up losing the battle. Wolves deserve our protection. The ranchers do, too.

island911 · 08-02-2007, 05:34 PM

raise CARROTS!?

bwut whadda 'bout dose pesky bunny wabbits? heheheheheheh...../fudd

WolfeMacleod · 08-02-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911

raise CARROTS!?

bwut whadda 'bout dose pesky bunny wabbits? heheheheheheh...../fudd

You know, you're on to something there. I was contemplating it a bit ago.
Rabbits breed like wildfire, right? Surely, several hundred rabbits could breed fast enough to sustain a pack for a good amount of time. Perhaps they should start introducing large rabbit populations in areas surrounding cattle ranches. The rabbit won't hurt the cattle, and the wolf would probably go after the rabbit instead....
Rabbits eat the cattle food? That's easy enough to solve...

island911 · 08-02-2007, 05:47 PM

Yes, but what about the guy you just told to farm carrots?

pwd72s · 08-02-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

No. Those are FOOD. I have no problem with people killing for FOOD.
problem with it? Tough crap!

/U]

Uh, would you be willing to kill a wolf for personal survival? Or, as you die, would you think that the wolf pack needed food? Livestock IS "survival" to those who raise them for a living. So fine, you think the wolf is worth saving? Cattle or sheep? This is the FOOD you eat whenever you order a NY, a rack of lamb, or a ribeye.... Damn! I'll NEVER figure you city folk out...

WolfeMacleod · 08-02-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

There is no easy answer to this situation that will satisfy everyone involved. .....Wolves deserve our protection. The ranchers do, too.

Jeff, good post. Knowing you personally, I've always thought you were a fairly enlightened person.
I can agree that "problem" wolves or packs should be dealt with, but would rather see them moved to very remote locations than killed outright, unless they decide to wander back into populated areas again.
I'd like to meet your aquaintance and spent some time at his place.

island911 · 08-02-2007, 05:52 PM

le'me see if I have this right ....

It is not okay to kill an animal that simply "gets in the way."

But it is okay to kill a person who offends your judgement of what's okay to kill.

uhmmm .. . nothing personal, but that seems a bit whacked.

WolfeMacleod · 08-02-2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwd72s

/U]

Uh, would you be willing to kill a wolf for personal survival? :

No, I would not.
bear, yes. Wolf, no.

However, I would flee before just letting him eat me.

nota · 08-02-2007, 05:53 PM

ok what are the real lost rates to wolves
1-2 % get the ''F" over it you dumb redneck
now get up to 20% and we have a real problem
but remember most of these so called private farmers
are doing their biz on PUBLIC LANDS
with very minimal investments

WolfeMacleod · 08-02-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911

le'me see if I have this right ....

It is not okay to kill an animal that simply "gets in the way."

But it is okay to kill a person who offends your judgement of what's okay to kill.

uhmmm .. . nothing personal, but that seems a bit whacked.

Exactly

Good point, really.

pwd72s · 08-02-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

No, I would not.
bear, yes. Wolf, no.

However, I would flee before just letting him eat me.

I see now...you feel you can ourun either? Hooboy, I doubt you've spent much time in the woods of the Pacific NW...

WolfeMacleod · 08-02-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwd72s

I see now...you feel you can ourun either? Hooboy, I doubt you've spent much time in the woods of the Pacific NW...

Maybe I should have said "attempt to flee"
But yes, I have. I grew up in a tiny town, very near the Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest. Our house was in it, I think.