World Wide Experiences with Socialized Medicine

[Hugh R]

Ok Pelicans, we have people world wide here. A lot of the National politics here in the USA is on Nationalized Medicine. We hear stories of long waiting lines, poor service, going to other countries like from Canada to the USA to get operations. What is your actual experience with it? I know when I was an independent consultant, a bare bones medical insurance policy for me, my wife and two teenage kids was $10,000/year, its got to be more than that now. I understand the uninsured issues, that's not what I want feedback on. I want to know how much of your taxes probably goes to pay for it, and what you get in return. Calling Canadians, those in the UK, New Zealand, Sweden, Australia, and anybody else.

[Tobra]

Funny you should mention it Hugh. Today my brother told me a lifetime friend was in Calgary on business, had chest pain, went to ER in some distress. Was told minimum 4 hour wait on chest pain. He flew to Minneapolis, had angioplasty and stent in 45 minutes after the plane landed.

True story. His mother was my mother's best friend. She came up with my name after hearing it on some soap opera. Dad says it was after Tobin Rote, just because he liked the name. The matter is still subject to dispute.

I have never been in a socialized healthcare plan really, guess when I was in the Navy.

[red-beard]

English National Health killed my grandfather. He was diagnosed as a hypochondriac. What he had was an aortic aneurysm. He bled to death from the inside. He would went in for pain and they gave him asprin, sent him home.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000162.htm

It is easily treatable with surgery before repure. Even today, less than 40% survive a rupture.

[boba]

I lived in Paris 1992-1995 and in Brussels 1995-1996. Shortly after arrival in Paris my wife was ill and admitted to the American Hospital of Paris. She almost died when the nurses would not respond to an emergency, had I not been in the room and not backed down until she got treatment she would have died. We learned that there are two health care systems in Europe one if you can pay yourself and the socialized system.

Some of our friends in France and Belgium are Doctors and they do not like the system either.

The only ones who seem to be for it are the Politicians and of course they are not subject to it.

[Dennis Kalma]

I have not had anything really bad go on...but the wait times are annoying and here in Calgary where everybody and everything is short of staff....well the service leaves much to be desired.

However, I do like the fact that it in effect is catastrophe insurance. While there are an uncomfortable number of issues with misdiagnosis and lack of access, it is nice to know that I never have to worry about health insurance coverage, not qualifying or not being able to afford it. I pay my $364 per quarter and that is it...the rest is up to the state (except for prescription drugs and elective stuff like Johnson lengthening or similar).

Personally I think single payer is the way to go, but I would support the idea of multiple provider so that the free market can get into play and get more out of less.....

Just my opinion...

Dennis

[Usmellgass2?]

My mom's side is Canadian, their health care sys is a train wreck. Any Canuck with money has US insurance. They recruit care workers from third world nations. Waiting lists for serious issues are ridiculous. They make a VA hospital look first class.

[Evans, Marv]

My first wife developed an abdominal infection while we were in Spain during a month in europe in '76. She kept telling me it wasn't anything serious, but after a week, I told her we were going back home immediately. When we got to England, she was very bad off. I took her to a clinic where they diagnosed the problem and put her in the hospital immediately. She got good competent surgery and care there for a month. I volunteered to pay for the treatment she received but they never said anything to me about it. Lately I've begun to think about that system here, since we seem to be getting ripped off more and more by the medical and drug cartel.

[svandamme]

i'm Belgian, and i like the Belgian system > get what you need when you need it
live in Holland and hate the Dutch system > waiting lists for EVERYTHING

[Joeaksa]

I lived overseas for about 15 years and got very good medical treatment. Course I was paying for it as anyone who makes over a certain limit in Europe is forced to pay for private insurance, no choice what so ever. Once the doctors find out you are privately insured they help you immediately, otherwise you sit for hours.

[svandamme]

well, that's not entirely true Joe,
can't speak for all of Europe, but in Belgium, Netherlands,Germany, UK, and i believe France as well, for a citizen there is no requirement that forces high incomes to get private insurance...

you can however, get extra insurance, for stuff like a private room in a hospital instead of a shared room

[Joeaksa]

Had no choice in Germany and Denmark when living there.

[svandamme]

were you a employee, or self employed?

[Isabo]

Biggest problem in Italy and the UK is waiting times.

[MFAFF]

Joe,

Whilst Europe may seem to be one homogeneous blob its not quite as simple as that....

Certainly in the Uk there is not need to have private health insurance at all, no matter how much you earn.

The reason to have private health insurance is mainly to increase the ease of access to and choice of medical treatment you get.

Going private does not equate to getting better medical treatment, in many cases private hospitals are far less well equiped to handle the unexpected.

Also note that ALL Emergency treatment is 'public', there are no private Emergency rooms, no private emergency ambulances.
So if you have private health car and you are in an accidnet, say your drive your Enzo into a lamp post the same ambulance crew will pick you up and take you to the same Accident and EMergency Department as the guys who drive is sh#tmobile into the lamp post. The same nurses will deal with you, the same doctors....and you will get the same treatment...in qulaity and quantity.

After that the private health care may make a difference in terms of 'hotel services' in a public hospital (private room etc) but the medical treatment will be the same, provided by the same staff.

Private medicine is a great help in elective complaints and in gaining access to medical care and chosing who provides it.. but it does not equate to better medical care.

Also ALL medics are trained in the same way, they all need to follow the same academic and clinical training, which is based in the public hospitals, not private, and are examined to the same standard. So the quality of the staff is not an issue.

A little aside is that there are very few private hospitals that have Intensive Care services avaliable, so all major surgery is undertaken without that back up and with the full knowledge and agreement that if something goes really really wrong you will end up in a public hospital being looked after by the required medical serivces who look after everyone...


The system here is so fundamentally different that comparisons are at best 'entertaining' but mainly irrelevant.

[Joeaksa]

Was an employee at an airline. We had absolutely no choice in the matter. Knew lots of people in the same boat.

Once you made over a certain limit you were shoved in the "private insurance" catagory. Am pretty sure that Germany is still like that.

[livi]

The Swedish system is dictated by the socio-political perspective that everyone should enjoy the same medical service and treatment no matter your financial status. Hence we cherish our world class taxes that supposedly should give us an equal and high standard health care. Private enterprises are nowadays allowed to a certain extent, but the price is the same for the patient.

In practice it is therefore not even possible to pay your way to a 'better' health care. We do not have your kind of insurance system.

Despite a few drawbacks, I believe it is a fairly good system. Rich or poor - you have access to the same health care. Furthermore, the cost for the patient is very low - almost symbolic - and if you can not even pay for that the state will cover for you.

In my discipline, most centers offer all health care for children without any charge at all.

[notfarnow]

I have no horror stories to report. In fact, I've had great service with little/no wait. Let me cite a couple examples:

1) A few months ago I had a wonky issue where I started getting nosebleeds, had funny smells and headaches. Called my family Dr from work, they got me in an hour later. 3 days later I had an MRI. Turned out to be polyps in my sinuses, I can have surgery if they become a serious issue.

2) My mother was teaching in Inuvik (North West Territories), when she noticed a lump on her neck. Went to the Dr. A couple days later a biopsy was done and flown to Edmonton, AB. They found cancer... non-hodgkins lymphoma. A week later she was flown to Edmonton for more tests, then back to New brunswick for chemo. This was all over the span of 2-3 weeks.

It's also worth noting that my brother in law is an emergency dr in Nova Scotia. He gets quite a few US tourists. The pateinets seem to expect a 3 day wait for 3rd world service, but are almost always surprised by the service, and how little they are actually billed for it.

[ejames19]

Interesting topic. I personally have had no issues and am all for nationalized health care here in Canada. Yes I have experienced sitting in a emergency room for hours on end to get stitched up from a bad knock, but it was not life threatening...Other times (my wife) we have gone into emerg and are back out within 30 min, depends on priority and how buisy...One interesting mishap was my father (retired in Florida) had chest issues, serious, went to emerg in Florida with insurance, found it would be more effective (cost wise) get an outfitted Lear type jet for medical use and fly him back to Canada for his treatment.. OHIP covered everything, includng Jet. I have family in England and have heard horror stories from my uncle, but no first hand knowledge.....I think it is worth the taxes we pay, a huge load off your mind.
Usmellgass2? not sure what your talking about, I know NO ONE with US Insurance unless they travel down there on a regular basis. For specialized treatment some people go to any country, mostly US if needed, but rarely costs anyone out of their pocket...

[Tishabet]

I was once seriously injured in Switzerland and can heartily recommend their helicopter rides and morphine drips.

[techweenie]

Had an esophogeal spasm in France 2 years ago. Went to a clinic. Was seen immediately and the problem solved. The fee (refundable, if I wanted to do the paperwork) was 40 Euros. No complaints from me, but it was a simple situation.

Contrast that with the woman who vomited blood and died on the ER floor in South Central LA last week. And the lesser-reported incident in the same ER of the guy with a brain tumor who was kept waiting for FOUR DAYS before being seen.