Of course it was.

Absolutely. I saw some Bandidos picking a bike up from the service department of our local dealer the other day. My gawd; "1% ers" bringing a bike to a dealer for service. I just had to give them ***** about it. And yes, there was a cupholder on that bike. I'm done, I'm buying a ******* moped...

I'll give my final $.02. Motorcycle ownership is very similar to owning a boat, an RV, a convertible, a horse or even a P-car: Oftentimes the fantasy is much better than the reality. That is not to say that you won't enjoy it...heck, you may become a diehard biker. But the reality is that bikes can scare you, hurt you, make you miserable in the heat or cold or rain, can be a financial drain, etc.

Ever wonder why there are so many bikes for sale with a few hundred or few thousand miles that are several years old? A lot of people fall for the romantic notion of how much fun a bike would be only to find out its not what they expected. I can think of 8 people I know personally who went out and bought a new bike but found it wasn't their cup of tea. And with rare exception took a bath when they finally decided to sell it a few years later.

Perfect example is one acquaintnance who dropped $7500 on a new Yamaha naked bike and all the gear and gave up on the fantasy 9 months and 1900 miles later. He's begging someone to buy it and the gear for $4K. You mentioned the Sportster...probably can get an 883 out the door for 7500 or so...you'llbe lucky to get $4000 for it in a year or two.

But all this is not a bad thing...there are deals to be had on good used bikes and gear everywhere. I bought my '98 Buell S1 with1800 miles on the clock in 2001 for $6K from a guy who had tro have one. He paid $10.5K for it then sent it back to the factory for $7K in engine/suspension upgrades. That 1800 miles and 2 years of pride in ownership cost him $11K.

I don't know where you live, but most places have small independent repair/accessory shops where bikes are sold on consignment or they at least have a bulletin board for private party sales. Go there instead of the dealers and see whats available. Check eBay. Try the Cycle Trader. If you do get addicted to the hobby, then you will have much better perspective on what you really want and what you want to spend. If you don't like m'cycle ownership as much as you thought you won't be out very much.

Finally don't get in a hurry. Fall and winter is approaching and used bikes get cheaper. If they don't sell by febnruary, a lot of owners will wait until spring and bump their prices up...unless they owe the IRS and then you can find some killer deals on the type of starte bike you're looking for.

Lert us know what you end up doing.

Nothing more aggravating to me that taking my Porsche for a drive on my favorite twisties (for a safe drive at the speed limit of course:)) and getting stuck behind some guy or gal on the latest superbike with full leathers/helmet that match the bikes color scheme and watching them wobble around the corners like they are scared half to death to lean ten degrees. :mad:

You think thats bad...buddy of mine who road races bikes has found guys willing to buy his worn out knee pucks.:eek:

My father and his buddies have either sold or are planning to sell their motorcycles (most are Harleys) due to health-related issues (bad hips, knees, arthritis, vertigo, etc...). Most people don't realize how physically demanding riding a motorcycle can be and they find out that as they get older it gets difficult to really enjoy the bike. These motorcycles get sold quickly because they are in good shape and have been babied. Older cars can be driven by many of these folks because the old cars aren't as physically demanding to drive and so they sell the bike, buy an old car and continue to cruise...

I'm skeptical about spending several hundred for a helmet. As long as it passes DOT and Snell, fits you well, and is a full-face, it should be reasonably safe. I've read helmet tests by Cycle World etc where they measured Gs to the headform and I saw no relationship between helmet price and Gs.

I have always bought Pyrotect. It is basically Bell's value brand, better known for their racing shoes, suits, gloves, etc. Fullface DOT/Snell M-rated for $138. I buy plain old white for less heat.

They are easy enough to deal with. It's the quarter mile long string of Harleys doing 10-15 under that aggravate me. No way to get around them when they are in formation. I've taken to passing as many as I can in the passing zone, then just crowding my way into their pack when it runs out. Funny how many of these idiots will try to crowd me out, think a guy wrapped around the outside of 700 pounds of metal is any match for a guy with 2200 pounds of it wrapped around the outside of him.

Hmmm, so it just isn't true, huh?
I'll tell that to Chuck Gorman right down the hall. he's still a bit shook up after watching his friend
go into a high speed wobble and hit the ground doing 75 mph. His own
road king is for sale BTW, he won't ride it again. he's going to stick to his old hard tail.

On the wall of my office is a framed picture of my friend and co-worker who passed away due to this design problem riding his bike.
Under the picture it reads:

Riding on a harley
with the wind in your face
it is like the angels flying at their own pace

The heavens are full of angels galore, but God needed you,
he just needed one more.

So glide like and eagle
spread your wings and fly
ride with your angels
throughout the heavenly skies.

In Memory of Ray, 4-2007

I am truly sorry about your friend, Sammy, I really am. But the numbers don't lie. If it were truly a "design problem", then it would show up at a far higher rate than it has been. Like I said, hundreds of thousands of people around the world have been racking up the miles on these things with no handling issues whatsoever. None.

It is always hard to lose a friend or loved one. I think it's our nature to look for some one to blame when it happens as senslessly as this. I'm sorry, but without the emotional attachment you had with you friend, it's pretty easy to look at this and see it was clearly not the bike. That's just the way it is.

Blaming the bike may make it easier on you and Chuck, but it makes things needlessly worrisome for other folks with loved ones on these things. Adding to unfounded hysteria is never a good thing. This sport is dangerous enough without stories of "killer bikes" with "fatal design flaws" floating about, with the added spice of the largest motorcycle company in the world callously covering it up. This kind of crap trickles down to folks like my wife (this particular one already had a few years ago, as a matter of fact), and other guys's wives or loved ones, who then fret every moment we are out of their sight on our bikes. It's not like they don't do that enough already.

Harley isn't the largest mfr in the world, is it?:confused:

But I digress...I believe you mentioned the greedy trial lawyers in an earlier post. One of the most innovative arguments about m'cycle design flaws was advanced by a lawyer representing anyone with leg injuries in a broadside accident wherein he (sometimes successfully) argued that only horizontally opposed engined bikes (BMW) were properly designed to prevent/minimize such injuries. You gotta hand it to him for that stretch.:cool:

Oh.. Oh... don't get me started! I live just a few miles from Long beach CA. the home of Jesse James... try THREE guys taking up two lanes (of a two lane highway) on their ultra $60K choppers with short straight pipes and three hundred millimeter rear tires holding up traffic.

Don't get me wrong, I saw a big dog bike parked outside the local brewery and it looked real nice... if I had $30K to throw away on a beach cruiser I would be tempted... but I don't.

I read the same article and accept it as is. I have purchased helmets for as little as $200 but only from brands I'm familiar with. BTW white(IIRC) was stated as being the most visible color on the road.

I think the article you're referring to might have run in Motorcyclist magazine a couple years back. Called "Blowing the Lid Off" or something like that. They found that the "cheapest" helmets tested, actually scored the best. Whether their testing method appropriately reproduces the type of trauma typically experienced by motorcyclists heads in accidents is a matter of debate (though at least they tried to scientifically measure these things). Also of note, IIRC, none of the truly top-of-the-line, most expensive helmets were included in the test (i.e. upper end Arai, Shoei, Suomy models). Not a perfect study, but definitely lots of food for thought.

And regarding the color issue, I've also heard that yellow is the most visible color to the human eye. Which is why some fire depts have experimented with painting their firetrucks yellow. How you can miss seeing a big red truck with lights and sirens is beyond me, but that's another issue. So I've got a bright yellow (Speed Yellow?) helmet. I know I've been called out by it a couple times: once by a co-worker who commented how visible/memorable it was when I passed her on the way to work, and another time when a car of college girls cried out "hey, yellow helmet" as they drove by. :D

I believe they are, in the "heavyweight" market. Of course they are also quite adept at PR and not above shuffling the numbers involved in such claims, so "heavyweight" may very well mean 883 cc to 95 ci bikes. That would be awfully convenient, now wouldn't it?;)

I would be curious to see what kinds of suits pass through the big manufacturers' legal departments. I bet there are some real doozies. Bikes just have to be such an easy target. It's amazing, really, that anyone can afford to build and sell them anymore.

I was going to mention the same thing. Unless you just want to blow 500 dollars on a helmet, You are kidding yourself if you think your getting something safer. A fancy paint job, yes. I personally love my flip for touring and wear a full face for the track and canyon riding on my sportbike. Check out the Scorpion brand. Very good helmets and the price is right.

Good luck on your first bike. I hope you enjoy it I ride for work everyday (it's one of those Blk and wht things) and ride my personal bikes on the weekends. For me it truly is a lifestyle. It's gotten to the point where I'm annoyed when I have to take a car.

Regarding the Harley design flaw, Thats interesting because LAPD is changing their whole fleet over to them. (From the guys I've talked to, they are absolutely junk) Although I wouldn't be surprised that a Government agency would go with the least expensive product, I would be extremely surprised that they would use a bike with a "Known" design flaw.

Sammyg2, very sorry to hear of your friends accident.

Buy a helmet like its going to save your life, because it very well may do this. If you feel your life is worth $100 then get a $100 helmet. I try to get one of the best available because I feel that my head is worth it.

As well, helmets are good for only about 5 years useage. Drop it, ding it and it should be thrown away. They get cracks in the shell that cannot be seen and its an unknown product from there on out.

The $100 argument is simply not valid when it comes to a DOT/Snell approved helmet. The fancy paint job and extra vents are not making that $600 helmet any safer.

I agree about the drop it and throw it away deal.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective. I am currently a member in a club that has at least half a dozen motorcycle cops, active and retired. They have all done duty on the Kawasaki, BMW, and H-D police bikes. While they would never call any of the current crop "junk", they all prefer the H-D for all day duty. I suppose if you ask cops that are also sport bike riders or something, they would call H-D "junk". Their perspective is different.

It seems the last holdouts for the "H-D is junk" is the sport bike crowd. Most touring riders, and certainly all of the "cruisers" accept and respect them for what they are. If your sole acceptance criteria is out-and-out performance, H-D has nothing for you. That is not what they are all about. I've always seen the sportbike crowd calling H-D "junk" sort of like the Camero owner telling the Mercedes owner that his car is "junk" because the Camero is faster. Uh huh... two different worlds. Their quality of manufacture, fit, and finish far exceeds any other motorcycle available today. And most cars. They are as, if not more reliable than any other machine made today. Their resale value speaks for itself; a five year old Harley is worth damn near what was paid for it new. A five year old Japanese sport bike has all the resale value of a used condom.

Keep all of that in mind when shopping for your bike, on-ramp. Your first bike, if a smaller Japanese bike, should be used. Let some one else take that big hit on it. There are thousands of them out there that folks can't give away. Find one, ride it, learn, and then step up to what you think you want.

A standing joke in ASRA thunder bike (buels) is that a 8 lap sprint is a endurance race. I know of many, many Gixers that have never turned a mile on the street but have been flogged for more than 20k miles at tracks without issues.

A 5 year old harley is mostly the same bike as the new harley.

A 5 year old sport bike is substantially heavier and slower than the new one.
Sport bike evolution is near constant, faster, lighter, better handling.

The new buel 1200 with the rotax motor seems promising

It'll actually be a 1125, but with 40 extra hp over the old 1200 and rotax reliability, it should be a great step forward.