There is no such thing as a death wobble until it happens to you or someone you are close to.

http://wobbleparts.com/default.aspx
http://www.heavydutycycles.com/lowspeed.htm

The Dreaded Speed Wobble

This is a panic-inducing temporary loss of control of the front forks. However, do not automatically assume that the forks cause it. The rear swingarm assembly and numerous other conditions may be the culprit. This is one reason that the condition can be difficult to diagnose and therefore repair. The mechanic may be attempting to correct a perfectly functioning part, assembly or adjustment.

The Lord’s Prayer & the Harley Elders

You know you are in a speed wobble when you are trying to remember the Lord’s Prayer. It may only last a few seconds, but it strikes without warning……or does it? As we progress, you will understand that mishandling of any type is predictable. It is invariably caused by mechanical problems, maladjustment of component parts or design defects. External conditions such as road surface or wind shear may exacerbate the situation. The Harley Elders will sagely inform the newcomers of their experiences in the old days. I don’t know why, but the old days stories are always worse than the present day ones.

“Tank Slappers”

The handlebars would develop a mind of their own, start to fibrillate for no apparent reason, then shake more violently, until the bars would be torn from the hapless riders hands and slap the gas tanks. Me? I’m an old guy. But I have never seen or experienced this but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. If you ask my opinion it has….in the old days….but not in modern times. The fact of the matter is that in the old days roads were not in as good a condition as they are today. Motorcycles were not built as precisely either. The maintenance of bikes today is superb relative to what it was like when I started riding. This is why I believe the tank slapper stories did occur. I am very happy that I can’t report to you, the reader, exactly what it was like. A modern motorcycle in good repair would never get to that frightening stage. Accelerating will get rid of the dreaded wobble. This takes courage. I, like the majority of riders would slow down which in my experience also cures the problem allowing the bike to stabilize. I have owned Harleys of every shape and form for 30 years and one Indian 45 that couldn’t get going fast enough to have a wobble.

My Experience

However, I had never experienced a speed wobble until I was riding about 15 years ago along a highway at maximum speed. The FLHT, began to do the shimmy while I was passing a tractor-trailer as fast as the bike would go. There’s no better way to convince a rider to slow down. I believe that the FLHT series of Harleys are not designed for sustained speed at over 90 mph. The tires are rated for it, the engine doesn’t mind and neither does the rest of the power train. But the FLHT frame-faring-beer box design is not!

I guess you missed this part:
Buell is a joke. Trying to take 50 year old Sportster technology and repackage it as a sport bike. H-D is out of their realm. Of course most H-D enthusiasts do not consider the Buell as an H-D any more than sport bike riders consider it a proper sport bike. So, my statement stands. You had to extend well beyond the scope of my statement - to the racetrack, and a very small and ill-concieved sub-set of H-D - to come up with anything at all.

Not to belabor my original point, but going back to those Gixers for a moment. In five years their crappy injection molded plastic parts have faded and cracked. All the bodywork and fairing mounting points are spiderwebbed, the fairing plexiglass has yellowed and crazed, the turn signals are sagging on their cheap bellows mounts, and on and on. Right off the showroom floor the welds appear gloppy and uneven, the paint has dry spots and thin areas, the cheapo decals are already starting to lift, and more. They are built as if no one will give a ***** about them five years down the road. And they are apparently right.


Yes, a five year old H-D is; you are correct. As correct as you are about the evolution of sport bikes. Again, two different goals. Like I said, if your sole measure of the worth of a bike is performance, H-D has nothing for you. Other manufacturers, however, do have something for you. That's one of the beauties of motorcycling; we all pays our money and makes our choices. An H-D stands as a long-term investment in a bike that can be ridden for years, or even a lifetime, without the need - real or perceived - to keep up with the latest and fastest. Sport bikes fill that niche, and are constructed accordingly. They are essentially throw-away bikes (with the notoable exception of the Ducs) that do not waste a lot of effort on longevity issues. That's great; I would not want to spend more on one for quality materials, fit, and finish(unless it is a Duc) knowing full well it would be old hat in five years. Again, two different sets of requirements. Judging either genre by the standards of the other just doesn't work.

Again, Sammy, I can't tell you how sorry I am about your buddy. I have lost several friends to motorcycle wrecks over the years as well, and have seen many more get injured. That said, however, you are perpetuating an unfounded rumor.

Your first link is no more than an unsrupulous company attempting to cash in on this rumor. That does not, in any way, add one whit of legitimacy to it. It can be dismissed out of hand.

Your second link, and the quotes you have mined from it, speaks towards "tank slappers" in very general terms, and refers to the "old days" without implicating modern motorcycles in any way at all. It does implicate shoddy mechanics at dealers and elswhere. That is a very, very long ways from "inherent design flaw" and some cover-up conspiracy on the part of H-D. I notice you left out Donny's last statement:

I might criticize Harley from time to time but I'll tell you one thing for sure. The people in Milwaukee, York and Kansas, right from the production line to top management are enthusiasts who love their product. Pride emanates from the Factory like few other places. The Factory will want your problem solved This problem is so simple. So simple that I wonder how…..oh never mind.

Your friend's bike was a Road King. It does not share the heavy handlebar mounted fairing of the FLHT that Donny mentions as implicated in contributing to a wobble. It does not have the frame mounted fairing common to the Road Glide belonging to the rider Donny is responding to. If you are attempting to link Donny's comments about airflow below a fairing contributing to handling issues, you have missed the mark. The Road King your unlucky friend was on has no such fairing.

Motorcycle safety is so very much more critical, as far as the components influencing it, than automobile safety. As I'm sure you read (but avoided quoting) in Donny's comments, a wide variety of factors influence the stability of a bike. Basic maintanence issues like tire wear and inflation, steering head and swing arm pivot adjustment, even the isolation mounts to the motor, primary drive, and trans on this particular bike. Throw in how the bike is loaded (he was on a long trip, correct?) and rider skill, and you are left with far more potential for something to go wrong, handling-wise, than with a car.

The undisputable fact that hundreds of thousands of people get all of this right, year after year, on these very bikes points to something other than the bike. It points to your friend. How he maintained the bike, how he loaded the bike, how he rode the bike, and what he may have done (or not) to have corrected the initial wobble when he first felt it. He fuched up. So have all of my friends and acquaintances that have died or been injured on bikes, save for the ones run over by cars and trucks. When a bike goes down on its own, it is almost universally pilot error.

Claiming it is otherwise won't bring your friend back. It won't help the next guy avoid it. Claiming some mysterious "design flaw" rather than analyzing what really happened, examining the factors leading up to this tragedy, helps no one. Disseminating real information, after a real hard look at what happened, just might.

I'm reading the official RMV Motorcycle Manual and came across "Wobble", which is categorized under "Mechanical Problems". Related to the discussion here. Sorry it's an image, from a PDF file:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1187035838.jpg

here's an update. I got my learner's permit and now in the market for a 883 Custom Sportster. but not the "Low" model because I'm not that short. I was looking at the Honda 600 for a while but then settled on the Harley. The "new" 2007 models have a ball-actuated clutch, which makes pressing the lever easier (makes a difference if you shift 100x a ride) and also it's the first year with fuel injection.
I will also be taking the classes. Can't wait to go riding. here's a pic.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1187743796.jpg

You do know the Sporster is considered a chick's Harley dont you? :D

Jeff,

I realize this is off-topic, but I don't entirely understand your overflowing hatred of Japanese sportbikes. Granted, I've never owned a Gixxer. But I had a Yamaha sportbike for 5 years (2000-2005). (I was the 2nd owner, and purchased from the original owner after he only put 900 miles on it in 6 months.) I experienced none of the quality control issues you mention. I'd wager that--at the end of my tenure of ownership--you'd even think the bike was from the current model year. No fading, cracking, spiderwebbing, yellowing, sagging, etc. that you mention. Paint was still deep and glossy. Decals were just fine.

Now, are there a lot of sportbikes that look like they've been thrashed and not taken care of? You bet. But that's just it. They haven't been taken care of properly. So it shows.

A good deal of that has to do with the owner. A lot of guys park them outdoors, in the sun/rain/snow. They get dropped and crashed...and then not repaired properly. That's what happens when you're young/poor/irresponsible.

I understand your point about the planned obsolescence of sportbikes. Clearly that's true from a technological perspective, where developmental generations are now on 2-year periods. And, knowing that (along with the ever-present urge to build things smaller/lighter/thinner), perhaps the Japanese factories don't put as much emphasis on overengineering parts for the long haul (i.e. goals of decades/100K miles of use). You could argue that H-D makes bikes/parts that are designed to live through sun/rain/snow/outdoor exposure, and still look good after 20 years, so why can't the Japanese. That's one part where I'd agree with you. But if a Japanese sportbike looks like cr@p after 5 years, it's not entirely the factories' fault, either.

Oh yeah, where are my manners: Congrats on getting the permit, onramp. Take the MSF, pass it to avoid the pain of taking the riding test at the DMV, and keep the shiny side up on that beautiful 883, and whatever else you ride in the future.

Cool choice onramp. Are you thinking the green?

When you get riding gear, make sure it has the armor in it.

Bill

yeah, I'm looking specifically for that green/black color combination. It's hard to find. Even if I have to wait for a couple of months, it will be worth it.

Thats a nice color combination. Should be a sharp looking bike onramp.

Very cool bike, onramp. My brother started out on one of the new rubber-mount Sporties just a couple of years ago. It was a fantastic bike in every respect. We would go on "Sportster rides" where I would forgo the cushy comfort of my Road King and hop on that old Ironhead. We would trade off and on during the day; what a hell of a way to see 30+ years of H-D progress and development. You are taking the right appraoch as well; welcome to the club. Be safe out there; they really are "out to get you".

Noah, I actually seem to have miss-represented myself. I love Japanese sportbikes and what they represent. The technology is simply incredible. Maybe I should use more of the smilies or winkies when I'm taking shots at them. If I had unlimited room in the garage and budget, I would have several of them. I lean more towards the older classics, like the first CB750's, H2's, Z1's, and the like. As a matter of fact I would like one of each...

Right up there at about the most fun (and sheer terror) I've experienced on a bike was before I got married, on my room mate's H2 set up with the 900cc big bore kit, flat slide Mikunis, and expansion chambers. Ho-lee crap... Totally unrefined mayhem at its best. I have since ridden a myriad of Gixxers, a Hyabusa, and other very fast bikes. They are not for me; admittedly, they scare the bejeebers out of me. I like my cars fast, but my bikes slow. Just different tastes. But I do love to, and reserve the right to tease and ridicule riders of other makes at any opportunity. It's a tradition of sorts in the bike world; please don't take what I say all that seriously.

on-ramp - that is a cool color combo. Not my taste in bike but if it floats your boat then that's all that matters.

Now about gear. Please don't become a HD clone (beanie style helmet, cut-off t-shirt, jeans, leather chaps and vest) just waiting for a road rash disaster...or worse. Invest in some real riding gear. Full face helmet, leather jacket with CE armor, full length riding gloves, and motorcycle boots. The sad thing about being outfitted is you're going to get some strange looks from the clones - but it sounds like you're above that.

These guys always seem to have good stuff on sale-

NewEnough

There are 2 basic rules for survival on a street bike:

1. Pretend you are invisible;

2. Everybody is trying to kill you.


Congrats on the decision....

Just lost everything I typed. Anyway. I should have been more specific. The motors I've spoken with (and thats alot because we all tend to talk about each others toys) have had several problems with their bikes. Clutch problems, Starters going out, difficult starting and crappy ABS. All of these problems are more from the type of use they get in police service and probably wouldn't be an issue in personal use. In fact several of the guys that mentioned they were junk, have Road Kings or Electra Glides as personal bikes.

For me I like Sport in my Touring bike, thats why I ride a FJR1300 and I like SPORT in my Sport bike, hence my Ducati.

My FJR has 35K on it and looks just as good as when I got it. Why because I take care of it. The motor runs like a top and I fully expect to get many more miles out of it. I'm not going to suggest that the quality of the jap bikes is the same as the Harleys, but i think a big reason you see bikes such poor shape is because of the type of people who typically buy them. They get ridden hard, crashed often and are bikes that people use as everyday transportation.

On- ramp. Congrats on taking the MSF class. I would also suggest you continue your training. Take an advanced class even something like the California Superbike School. The skills you learn are just something else you can put in your bag of tools, regardless of the type of bike you ride.

Good choice On-ramp, and great advice above. I've just got one more thing to add...have you considered straight pipes :)?

Crappy ABS on a Harley? I guess they do have the worst in the industry. Or maybe the best. It all depends on the rider's right hand and right boot - Harley has never had ABS.

I've actually ridden an FJR and loved it. A buddy just bought one. a long-time Harley rider, as a matter of fact. He sold his all-original '63 Pan Head Electra Glide after owning it for 30-some-odd years. He looked at and rode a bunch of newer and brand new Harleys and decided they were not for him anymore. To each his own; they are all great fun. We still ride together, and always will, regardless of what the other guy shows up with. That's more what it's all about.

Great advice. I have been riding since '76, averaging about 10,000 miles a year over that time period. I still return to the MSF classes about every 4-5 years just to brush up. I always learn something new, and get reminded of things I have forgotten or let slip.

Another great course once you get some miles under your belt is a police officer motorcycle training course. Many areas offer them to the public, taught by motorcycle cops. Our local one takes a week of evenings plus one full weekend and costs about a grand if you want to ride their bikes (highly recommended, as you will dump it a couple of times). You will learn more than you ever though possible and have a ball doing it. Maybe something to plan for next summer after you have been riding awhile.

Along those lines, here in NC, in addition to the basic MSF classes (taught at community colleges on small bikes), they also have an "advanced" course for experienced riders using their "personal" bikes...good stuff.

Jeff, Harley actually has offered ABS, but only on police models. I haven't seen it in person, but I've heard its a cobbled up system with the pump in the saddle bag.

I'm looking to acquire an R1150RT-P and have found a lot of discussions on various forums.

The BMW system is absolutely excellent. It saved my life twice and if I ever get a new BMW it will have it onboard.

On ramp,

Go straight for the facial tattoos, selves are so last year, ;)

Good luck with the bike, I still think it is too big and heavy for a first bike but its your money. Have you checked to see if there is a rent a Harley in your area? That way you could test drive one for a weekend before buying.

SmileWavy