Dutch bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ to ease relations

[dhoward]

Those wacky Dutch!

AMSTERDAM - A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding, stoking an already heated debate on religious tolerance in a country with one million Muslims.

Bishop Tiny Muskens, from the southern diocese of Breda, told Dutch television on Monday that God did not mind what he was named and that in Indonesia, where Muskens spent eight years, priests used the word "Allah" while celebrating Mass.

"Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? ... What does God care what we call him? It is our problem."
A survey in the Netherlands' biggest-selling newspaper De Telegraaf on Wednesday found 92 percent of the more than 4,000 people polled disagreed with the bishop's view, which also drew ridicule.

"Sure. Lets call God Allah. Lets then call a church a mosque and pray five times a day. Ramadan sounds like fun," Welmoet Koppenhol wrote in a letter to the newspaper.

Gerrit de Fijter, chairman of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, told the paper he welcomed any attempt to "create more dialogue", but added: "Calling God 'Allah' does no justice to Western identity. I see no benefit in it."

A spokesman from the union of Moroccan mosques in Amsterdam said Muslims had not asked for such a gesture.

Religious tensions on the rise
Signs of tension had already surfaced in the last two weeks after the head of a committee for former Muslims was attacked and populist anti-immigration politician Geert Wilders called for the Koran to be banned.

Bishop Muskens, who will shortly retire, has raised eyebrows in the past with suggestions that those who are hungry may steal bread and that condoms should be permissible in the fight against HIV and AIDS.

Some Dutch Muslims welcomed his comments as a valuable gesture of support coming just days after Wilders branded the Quran a "fascist book" in the vein of Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" which legitimizes violence.

Wilders, whose new party won nine seats out of the 150 in parliament in last November's elections, is well known for his firebrand remarks on Islam.

He said an attack by two Moroccans and a Somali on the head of a Dutch group for "ex-Muslims" had spurred him to write.

Issues of immigration and integration had faded from the Dutch political agenda over the last year, after a period of unprecedented social tension sparked by the 2004 murder of Theo Van Gogh, a filmmaker critical of Islam, by a Muslim militant.

[Mule]

Allah smackbar!

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Kerkelijke loopbaan

Tiny Muskens werd in het bisdom 's-Hertogenbosch tot priester gewijd op 16 juni 1962 door mgr. Bekkers. Hij studeerde missiologie in Nijmegen. Zijn doctoraalscriptie en proefschrift gingen over Indonesië, waar hij acht jaar woonde en werkte als directeur van het Centrum voor documentatie van de Indonesische bisschoppenconferentie. In 1978 werd Muskens benoemd tot rector van het Nederlands College (Pontificio Collegio Olandese) in Rome. Tevens doceerde hij daar kerkgeschiedenis aan twee internationale colleges. Muskens zou zestien jaar in Rome verblijven. Op 23 juli 1994 benoemde paus Johannes-Paulus II hem tot bisschop van Breda, als opvolger van mgr. Ernst. Op 26 november van dat jaar werd Tiny Muskens tot bisschop gewijd in de St. Gertrudiskerk te Bergen op Zoom.

Op 9 september 2006 is Hans van den Hende als opvolger van Muskens aangesteld. Tot het vertrek van Muskens zal van den Hende hem als hulpbisschop-coadjutor, dat is hulpbisschop met recht van opvolging, ondersteunen. Op 30 maart 2007 verscheen zijn laatste boek Opmaat tot eeuwigheid, waarin Muskens schrijft over de dood. Hij ziet de dood in de eerste plaats als een nieuwe fase in zijn leven. Bij de presentatie van het boek kondigde hij aan dat hij op 2 februari 2008 zal intreden bij de Benedictijnen in Teteringen als 'regulier oblaat'. In de periode daaraan voorafgaand zal hij zijn bisschopsambt neerleggen.

[bewerk] De persoon

Muskens betoont zich voorstander van de afschaffing van de verplichte koppeling tussen celibaat en priesterschap en van condoomgebruik ter voorkoming van aids. Op 2 oktober 1996 veroorzaakte Muskens beroering, vooral in de bakkerijbranche, toen hij in een VPRO-televisieprogramma zei dat het stelen van brood geoorloofd is als mensen honger hebben en geen andere mogelijkheid zien om te overleven. Muskens verwoordde daarmee slechts de moraalleer van de Katholieke Kerk.

[bewerk] Godsdienstvrijheid

Op het "Festival der Bestuurskunde" in Amsterdam verklaarde Muskens op 16 februari 2006 dat de dialoog tussen christenen en islamieten geen toekomst zal hebben zolang er in Saoedi-Arabië geen kerken gebouwd kunnen worden.

[frogger]

That's hilarious!

How about Thor?

[cool_chick]

No need. God and Allah are the same, just like milk and laben are the same, so an English speaking person would say milk or God and an Arabic speaking person would say laben or Allah.

And yes, the suggestion is indeed wacky.

[Aerkuld]

Colin

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by cool_chick

No need. God and Allah are the same, just like milk and laben are the same, so an English speaking person would say milk or God and an Arabic speaking person would say laben or Allah.

And yes, the suggestion is indeed wacky.

FISH ON!

[cool_chick]

???

[widgeon13]

I've sent an email to the Vatican and awaiting their response, I'll keep you all posted.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by cool_chick

No need. God and Allah are the same, just like milk and laben are the same, so an English speaking person would say milk or God and an Arabic speaking person would say laben or Allah.

And yes, the suggestion is indeed wacky.

Actually, neither Christianity nor Islam recognizes "God" and "Allah" as being the same. Christianity espouses a "triune" God, consisting of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Islam considers this blasphemy worthy of death. In their beliefs, Allah neither has nor requires the other two components of this trinity. To assign "partners" to Allah is blasphemy of the worst kind; he alone reigns supreme. This difference of opinion on the nature of God and Allah is at the core of the strife between these respective religions. Neither side will ever yield on this point. They are not even close to being equivelent in these peoples' worlds.

[livi]

Godzilla. If it turns out to be of a female gender let´s just call her Ms Molly. Good golly, religion will be the end of this world.

[dhoward]

No, no Jeff.
Haven't you been listening?
"I have friends who are Muslim..."

[dhoward]

And it's Godzirra, Livi.

[cool_chick]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Actually, neither Christianity nor Islam recognizes "God" and "Allah" as being the same. Christianity espouses a "triune" God, consisting of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Islam considers this blasphemy worthy of death. In their beliefs, Allah neither has nor requires the other two components of this trinity. To assign "partners" to Allah is blasphemy of the worst kind; he alone reigns supreme. This difference of opinion on the nature of God and Allah is at the core of the strife between these respective religions. Neither side will ever yield on this point. They are not even close to being equivelent in these peoples' worlds.

They're the same being. Each thinks the other is "wrong" about the same being. (Jews don't buy the new testiment, Christians don't buy the Koran, Muslims believe the older writings (old and new testiment) are somewhat accurate, but was somewhat "corrupt" by man, for lack of better word). All three are Abrahamic religions, based on the same God. Though, one has to admit, with regard to the Trinity, based on multiple writings in the old testiment, the trinity doesn't make sense..... (the belief of Jews too). Either way, it's the same being. Allah is the native language's word for God, like Yahweh is, etc.

Edit: and both do indeed recognize this.....

[futuresoptions]

It's allah ta crap......

[cool_chick]

Originally Posted by livi

Godzilla. If it turns out to be of a female gender let´s just call her Ms Molly. Good golly, religion will be the end of this world.

LOL no it won't Livi. If it wasn't religion, it'd be something else. The human species seem to love to hate each other for some odd reason.....

[livi]

Originally Posted by dhoward

And it's Godzirra, Livi.

Needs the 'L's' in order to incorporate Allah with God..

[dhoward]

To be clear, I wasn't baiting CC intentionally...

[Aerkuld]

Well, when it come to ridiculous ideas you can't beat the Bishop!

[Mule]

Originally Posted by cool_chick

No need. God and Allah are the same, just like milk and laben are the same, so an English speaking person would say milk or God and an Arabic speaking person would say laben or Allah.

And yes, the suggestion is indeed wacky.

Do some research. Jehovah was never the moon god. Nice try though.