Five thousand years ago, Moses said, "Hitch up your camel. Pick up your shovel. Mount your ass. I will lead you to the promised land."

Five thousand years later, Franklin Roosevelt said, "Light up a Camel. Lay down your shovel. Sit on your ass. This is the promised land.

Obviously we are talking political alignment, so if I may add an observation as on outsider;

I don't understand the tendency to want to catagorize everything and everybody as Liberal or Conservative. I listen to people proudly stating their political alignment and wonder how much they really understand or pay attention to the issues. What nonsense would they vote for if their chosen party decided that it was a good idea just because they're a Democrat/Republican (delete as appropriate). This type of restricted thinking amazes me. I suppose that each party must maintain a unwavering position for people to be able to vote this way without thinking about it, am I correct?
Don't get me wrong, this happens in other countries too. In Britian, for example, the tendency used to be for the Conservative party to be the white collar party while the Labour party was more the working class choice (not so much now maybe) and people would often vote along class lines. But they also have other parties in the mix between and outside the two so you get a good mix of views and opinions and have the option to pick the least offensive. Is there anything in the constitution that limits the government to two parties?

Of course, I'm only stating my opinion based on observation. Please correct me if required.

[QUOTE=Aerkuld;3475452]I don't understand the tendency to want to catagorize everything and everybody as Liberal or Conservative.QUOTE]

I agree with what you said in regards to this. Unfortunately it's one of those deals where you have to pick one or the other come time to vote. I'd like to see some more purple between the red and blue party but unfortunately if you want to win in politics these days you need a group/financial backing to do so. And then in the end you get two extremes and have to pick the one with fewer negatives in your mind, or basically the lesser of two evils.

I don't know if your a south park fan but one episode puts it beautifully. In this episode the children have to pick there mascot, and it's between a giant turd and a douche. Stan, one of the children doesn't want to vote, and it creates a big uproar in the town. In the end he realizes that he should vote to make his voice heard, because no matter what, whenever you vote in life, it's probably going to be between a giant turd and a douche.

[QUOTE=1fastredsc;3475745] I agree, that does sum it up well...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189684788.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189684815.jpg

So, if the douche bag candidate will be Hillary, who will be the turd?

LOL!

Hilarious. I've got to pass that one on.

what ever religious neo-conned nut who runs against her

So are you a Hillary kind of guy?

??? had a bad morning Nota?

All of us are fiscal conservatives. All. Everyone I have ever met believes that government spending should be limited. Frugal.

Nearly all of us are social liberals, at least in the sense that the vast majority of people recognize the necessity of certain kinds of social spending. Not necessarily "welfare" or food stamps or "handouts," but some kind of programs that will give people options. At least one "good" choice they can see.

Back to the study thing. I have said here many times that the terms "conservative" and "liberal" are used here for a reason. Conservative = narrow. Liberal = wide. Of course, conservatives are going to bristle at the suggestion that their thinking is narrow or simplistic. But those people are not doing much to impress us with their circumspect political thinking. With one post (sometimes with one sentence), they will decry this conclusion their thinking is narrow......and then also explain how very simple political questions really are. Hmmmm.......

Take Iraq for example. Liberals favor a solution that brings a wide number of mechanisms into play, including and especially diplomatic solutions. Conservatives appear to believe that diplomacy is simply the act of saying "please" with a puppy-dog look in our eyes. Begging. That's an EXTREMELY ignorant view. The rejection of diplomatic tactics and the belief that it's a simple matter of using the military to clobber resistance to our agenda is both pompous and arrogant. And simple. Obviously not consistent with the liberal belief that IT'S JUST NOT THAT SIMPLE.

And I think the conservatives whose minds are even slightly open..........should be starting to discover that it really isn't just that simple.

Here's what's simple: That quote. About liberals under 30 and conservatives over thirty. Here's another ultra-simple but AT LEAST as accurate quote: When the only tool you have is a hammer, all the problems look like nails.

There ya go again - using logic and thoughtful analysis to bludgeon people!
(kudos)

The death of the Democratic Party was when it started pandering to people that think they ought to be able to sit on their asses all day and have the government hand them checks for it.

The death of the Republican Party was when it started pandering to religious whack-jobs with a penchant for forcing their way of life on everyone else.

Democrat = whiny, liberal government teat-sucker
Republican = redneck, control-freak, bible-thumping zealot

Great choices, eh?

The party that succeeds will be whichever one can shed themselves of the above categorizations and embrace the moderate majority. Both have chucked the fat part of the bell curve for the extremes - a pretty stupid strategy to win.

I don't consider it fiscally conservative to want the gov't. to pay for things that people should pay for themselves, i.e. health insurance. Lots of folks call themselves fiscal conservatives, but that does mean they are. If you want universal health care, you ain't a fiscal conservative. Bush doesn't even want that, but he's far, far from a fiscal conservative. The term has become a red herring with no meaning, sort of like when someone uses the word "key" too often. If everything is key, then nothing really is.

+100 Couldn't be said better.

Whenever you finally become disillusioned with the party of "whatever the wind blows answers," I'll welcome you back. You might even discover that some of us are not that shallow. ;)

Reading these responses validates the study's results. Interesting when one actually analyzes the mindsets of the responders. One group quick to characterize and demonize, the other more willing to "negotiate".

1.So you don't actually know anyone, or just a few people, none of whom are liberal democrat politicians.

2.I would agree with this point, the big difference between a liberal and a conservative is the manner in which they would go about accomplishing their goals. Liberals do not appear to understand that government programs spend a lot of money to do a little, with the possible exception of needle exchange programs for IVDA's to keep AIDS and hepatitis in check.

3.Some questions do have simple answers. Another way to view the dichotomy is that a conservative is a realist, a liberal an idealist. Advantages and disadvantages to realism and idealism.

4.Okay, you don't have a good understanding of what we did before, during and since entering the fray in Iraq. Years of sanctions and diplomatic pressure were ineffective. Liberals and conservatives decide something must be done. Liberals say, we need to change tactics, the general running the show has to go, send this Petraus guy. Then when the man they unanimously supported comes to make his report, they act like he is a Philadelphia Scheister trying to sell them Chinese toys with lead paint. We have been using more than one tactic since day one. The liberals are invested in losing. Harry Reid said we have lost already, if we succeed, the hatred and distrust of the current administration will be proven unfounded, in the views of many.

5.Does it bother you to live in a country where 50% of the people are so uninformed and close minded? How is the weather in Concescension land?

6.AT LEAST as accurate? Maybe for a moron.

You guys are funny. It would take me an hour to respond to the remarks since my last post, and that time would be wasted. Wasted on open-minded readers? Nope.

There is a group of people who think this Iraq thing is pretty simple. Like a WWF bout. The strategy is this: We are going to clobber those dang terrorists until we've killed so many of them that the surviving ones are scared to attack us again. Now, I have to salute this kind of thinking on the basis that it is exceedingly simple.

The other group of people think this Iraq thing is complicated, and that killing terrorists has both an upside and a downside. These people think that success will require some other efforts. Political and diplomatic efforts. Public education efforts. Economic efforts. and more........

And don't tell me that the current "administration" has used a multi-pronged approach. It has not done this. Instead, it has placed all our national security "eggs" into one basket. The "WWF" basket.

Careful now- thats WWE. The WWF sued the WWF saying that the WWF had chosen the WWF name before the WWF did, and the second WWF had to change to WWE.

Marklar.

And it wasn't a giant turd- it was a turd sandwich. I voted for turd sandwich.

I am a liberal based on the fact that the federal government has not done anything in a century that I view as worth conserving. Washington is one huge pile of steaming dog poo!

Unfortunately, that steaming pile of dog poo has succeeded in creating one big communist nation that conforms perfectly to the planks of the Communist Manifesto.

Karl Marx in creating the Communist Manifesto designed these planks AS A TEST to determine whether a society has become communist or not. If they are all in effect and in force, then the people ARE practicing communists.

Communism, by any other name is still communism, and is VERY VERY destructive to the individual and to the society!!

The 10 PLANKS stated in the Communist Manifesto and some of their American counterparts are...

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc...).

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
Americans call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
Americans call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture… Thus read "controlled or subsidized" rather than "owned"… This is easily seen in these as well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.

8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
Americans call it Minimum Wage and slave labor like dealing with our Most Favored Nation trade partner; i.e. Communist China. We see it in practice via the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
Americans call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. These provide for forced relocations and forced sterilization programs, like in China.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
Americans are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, but are actually "government force-tax-funded schools " Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share". WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested !! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. ... America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC ... Teaching ourselves and others how to "fish" to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be "needy"... Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.