An observation about panhandlers...
 

I understand the plight of the homeless and I'm truly empathetic. AND I recognize the problems associated with illegal immigrants as I live in a largely agrarian state that attracts many migrant workers.

Now it may be different in Mexifornia, but I have yet to set a hispanic panhandler. I see plenty of alleged homeless "Vets" of various ethnicities, etc but never a person of hispanic origin.

Just an observation.

PS: On a lighter note, when approached by someone holding a "will work for food" sign, some comedian said he replied "Here's an onion...paint my house.":D

I've never seen any Asian panhandlers.

Very hard...I will not handicap other races and cultures than my own, but, being half Spanish (Hispanic), I can say that when the call went out the extended family would show up and work until the job was done.
And when our extended family would call, my Mother was not about to let us put on a poor showing.
I've always thought that was a good template. The support structure was always there. There was also an expectation that working hard was the norm, that anything less was silly.


Concerning the homeless, it is never simple, often less about society than the individual. There is such a sadness in my heart when I interact with them...I am a stupidly soft touch. Good thing I live in a rural setting.

Come to think of it, neither have I.

Google "Shaky Lady" for more info...


Shaky Lady' denies lucrative panhandling business
Toronto Star | 3-11-02 | Canadian Press


Posted on 03/12/2002 4:53:33 PM PST by Temple Owl


'Shaky Lady' denies lucrative panhandling business

Elderly Toronto beggar obtains lawyer, holds news conference

From Canadian Press An elderly panhandler known as the "Shaky Lady" held a news conference today to dispute a newspaper column that alleges she rakes in thousands of dollars a week and lives in a comfortable apartment with her family.

Margita Bangova, 66, was the subject of an expose by the Toronto Sun last week.

The newspaper reported that the woman, who her lawyer says trembles because of a medical condition, collects about $2,500 a week from sympathetic passersby on a busy corner near Yonge and Bloor streets.

Speaking through her lawyer, Leonard Hochberg, Bangova said she panhandles to supplement her disability pension of $900 a month.

He said there's no way Bangova is given as much as estimated by the Sun, estimating that she took in $80 a day during the holiday season and between $40 and $50 a day during the rest of the year.

Originally from Slovakia, Bangova lives with her son and his three children in a one-bedroom east-end apartment that has leather furniture, a big screen TV and computer, according to media reports.

Hochbery said people have been too hard on his client, adding she does not deserve the bitter backlash that's resulted from the Sun columns.

He said Bangova, who abandoned the corner since the story emerged Friday, hadn't decided whether to return to panhandling but did not rule it out.

Hochberg refused to say who was paying his fees.

this is America, the greatest country in the world. (I hope). There is no reason whatsoever for anyone to be homeless. get a job, any job, start somewhere, and develop your skills. being homeless is more in the brain , than the result of society. homeless people have simply given up hope. they need mental help first, or help from their drug or alcoholism.

Nor have I met an Asian guy named "Rusty".... :confused:

Saw George Lopez on HBO recently. Funny guy.
RE: His story about the Mexican work ethic and why Mexicans could never have been 'slaves'.

(Paraphrasing) The slave owner goes out to the slave quarters, assembles his Mexican slaves and says,"OK, today ... you all gotta get out there and pick ALL that cotton!"

One of the slaves steps forward, "Already done that boss ...what else you got?"

Well, I witnessed homelessness at its finest today - not quite sure how else to put it.

Was pulling onto an on ramp of the 405N and saw one homeless guy strangling another, I didn't know what else to do so I called 911 which takes a lot longer than it should these days. I had considered getting out of the car to try to stop it but both guys were about twice my size in my experience with the homeless population around that off/on ramp they are all pretty darned crazy. I had my wife and toddler with me in the car so, I called 911 and gave a description of what I saw.

badness.

I do think to homeless problem was/is exacerbated by the release of many mental patients that began in the '70's. Maybe warehousing them in institutions wasn't such a bad idea.

Seems that prior to that time, homeless people were homeless by choice; i.e., hobo's and such who were making a lifestyle choice.

Why would calling your 1980 Porsche SC 911 have solved the problem? I certainly wouldn't have endangered my 911 Targa over that. Seriously though, my daughter's Godfather is hispanic, (and they say I'm a racist) the type that speaks Spanglish with his brothers and sisters and Spanish with his mom and dad, and he says its cause of their work ethic. Which I agree, they work hard. My problem with the illegals is that they take more in social services than they could ever imagine paying back in. Then again, I contend that the "average" american doesn't pay his "fair share" of taxes anyway, but that's for another thread.

I differentiate between the truly "Homeless" and "Bum's"...

I view someone homeless as a victim of a circunstance that they are working hard to rectify and need help along the way to achieve the objective.

Somehow the category of "Homeless" has encompassed everybody from the folks needing some help to out and out Bum's.

I agree with the fact that most of us don't pay our fair shair (i.e. grade school alone probably costs more than most parents pay in taxes for example). With the illegal worker, they are "low cost" (to their employers) because you and I our our subsidizing their true cost. I'm not saying this is good our bad, just that it is. Because of the way things work in our society, this is pretty common for a lot of things.
- Houses: Non-home owning tax payers subsidize homeowners to the tune of the tax deduction home owners get.
- Trucking: I've heard that trucks "wear out" the roads more than the extra taxes they pay would compensate for. The consumer gets "cheap" lettuce from across the country but actually pays for it from his taxes.
- Pollution: In the old days, the manufacturer would save money at the expense of the "common wealth" and everyone else would pay to clean it up.
That latter case is a good example of how the government got in the act and made the polluters pay the true cost for producing their product. I suspect we are still paying for "cheap" products from 3rd world in the form of air and sea pollution.
-Chris

There's the "Will you buy me a sandwhich?" guy in Ottawa. He's of Asian descent.

I've never seen a Mexican panhandler. Or a Spanish one, or German one, or French one......

I guess there are plenty of those where they live.

I don't ever give money to panhandlers. I agree with on-ramp. Most of those people are there by CHOICE. I don't go out of my way to be rude to them, normally I just say "sorry, I can't help you" (which is true, in more ways than one if you think about it. . .) Anyway I also believe that (1) I value each and every dime I earn, and to give it away for nothing is foolish, (2) I cannot respect someone who will not respect themselves first, (3) it just encourages them and this sort of "I need a handout" mentality.

I don't particularly need to hear their life's story either.

I this country I've only ever seen panhandlers who were either mentally ill or just lazy. Plenty of the just lazy ones I've even seen talking on their cell phones and wearing nice new sneakers. In other countries I've seen beggars with deformed or no legs, dragging themselves on the pavement. Even giving to them can be dangerous as a lot of them are begging for a "pimp" who keeps a close eye on them and the first sign of a donation brings more beggars out of the woodwork. It's even worse with the kids. In China they'd grab onto my legs and simply not let go. Giving money is sure t make things worse and the kids don't keep any of it anyway. The one time I almost broke down in tears was in Chongqing when I saw a girl with a head the size of two basketballs and a slouch from all that weight. I made a very inconspicuous brush pass and gave her five one yuan notes (about $.50). Anymore than that would have surely been stolen from her pail and that was easily enough to feed her for a week. She had one of those dog chew toys with the squeaker thing in it and squeezed it twice as if to say "xie xie" or thank you. That was a tough one. Usually, I ignore them and don't give a second thought.

In ref to the story above about the lady from Canada, I knew a guy (used to work with his son) that would get up five days a week and drive out to a large gas station/truck stop at Interstate 95. He would usually wear an old pair of Levi's, (the kind the kid's pay extra for these days with the holes in them), he would usually have on a nice polo shirt or tee shirt, this guy would park his Ford F250 King Ranch pickup and get a old fold up wheel chair that he bought at a salvation army store out, put on a old ragged out BDU jacket and a matching boonie hat and sunglasses, plug in a small American flag on one armrest of the chair and push it out to the stop sign at the bottom of the exit ramp, where he would sit and hold up a sign that read " vietnam vet, homeless, need money for medical treatments " , he would do this about three or four hours then go back to the truck stop and eat lunch, drink a beer and then hit it for another couple hours before coming home. He never reported his income and always got paid in cash, drinks, food, beer ect... he said that people gave him all kinds of stuff.

When I asked him why all he would say was " beats working for a living.


ToddSmileWavy

Sounds like a person worthy of a good Samaritan giving him a 40 mph push start down the on-ramp in his wheel chair so he could really qualify for those medical treatments.

There was a college kid here who did a study for his thesis. He dressed up as a homeless person (wouldn't that be "dressing down"?) and hit the busiest street corners. On an average day, he made anywhere from $50 to $200. Then, he went out with a puppy on a leash. His intake jumped to $100 ~ $400/day.

I don't give them a dime. There are plenty of taxpayer (read me & you) funded programs for those that really need it. Unfortunately for the homeless, those programs don't serve booze or drugs.

I once spent a day working at a soup kitchen on Perry St. in Trenton (VERY BAD area). It was run by a Catholic church and there were a lot of nuns helping out. Some of the poor folks in there just wouldn't stop asking me for "bus fare" or whatever. They all had great stories and back then I believed them. I asked one of the nuns what to do and she told me to not even think about giving them money. She further explained we were already giving them a pretty good meal and a warm place to hang out and any money would just go for smokes, booze, lotto tix or drugs. I always remembered that.

I was a very inquisitive one yesterday. Good looking gal knocks on the front door, was very excited to see me. She actually said I ordered her. :confused:

So, we had a little chat. Apparently she was 18 from Iowa, had a 24 year old b/f, and wanted to go abroad. I told her to get off the drugs, ditch the b/f, and apply herself. She was very witty, might make a good lawyer one day.

Hours later said b/f knocks on the door like he was trying to make it cave in, chick is still crying. No answer.

If you suck at life, apparently America is the place to be.

Here in So Cal (I.E.) it is my understanding that the homeless are entitled to a voucher for 100% of their rent (granted not in the nicest of areas) and food stamps. This covers the two main staples of food and shelter. And thya re given a "Dignity Card" so no one knows that they are spending food stamp money.

I do not give them cash as I am told that this only goes to booze, drugs and cigs. I have seen the homeless on on-ramps throw out food given to them after the car passes. I collect food for a food bank instead. We deliver a large trailer full of non-perishables monthly to a facility in a poor part of town east of LA. It provides a well rounded selection of staples that will last 2 weeks. You cannot ask for more until 4 weeks have gone by, and they will not support you forever. They have ways of determining where you live and cross-reference recipients to addresses. This is an attempt to reduce complete reliance on this aid.

The primary recipients are Mexican and Black. Most of the whites and minority of the minorities appear to me to be on drugs - but that said, the majority of the recipients are just poor.

At Mass yesterday we were implored to turn a kind eye towards the homeless. And there is plenty in the Bible to back this up. However, I see the on-ramp panhandlers as opportunists and traffic hazards, and can only guess what would happen to me if I hit one with my car while he dodging in and out of traffic trying to get cash.

It is certainly a dilemma for our times and that of our children. I believe the mentally ill should be re-institutionalized - for this I believe is a worthy use of my taxes.

IMHO of course!

I don't even get the above story. Ordered her? You let her in?? Boyfriend knocking on door??? I gotta be missing something here.

Chicago actually has some of the "best" panhandlers I've seen anywhere. Lots of the typical, hand out for no reason types, but there are people who perform for the money but are clearly begging, not street performers per se'. One guy plays the tuba on Michigan ave. Last time I saw him he was playing the theme to The Flintstones. Pretty comical, but he got very pissed when we laughed. Takes his craft seriously I guess. There are also obviously handicapped people out there, blind, disfigured, etc.. I usually give them money. I don't care if they get assistance. None of that can make up for what nature dealt them. I hope they are getting rich.

You are as baffled as I. I don't think she knew what she was doing at my door at the time. Her story was riddled with holes.

The first thing she said after I asked if can I help you was, "Yea, you ordered me."

I let her thru the garage to the back porch, and sent her out through the side gate.

Unfortunately, the only person getting rich is the corner liquor store owner who converts the money you gave the panhandler into booze/cigs.

WTF are you saying? This makes no sense.

We had a homeless piece of crap waving a replica/air pistol in the air at the local Ralph's Supermarket. SWAT, the Media and every bleeding heart lib in town showed up....made the front page. Took him down with bean bags and a dog after two hours of negotiation.

Fun in a small town....yes, he was a white guy. They probably woulda shot him if he wasn't.....

http://64.29.230.54/Top/pictures/15339670.jpeg

http://64.29.230.54/Top/pictures/15339673.jpeg

Not in my case. I pay in lots more than I take, and I pay for others who don't.

Nope again. Homeowners pay lots more. Here it's over 1% of the value of hte property. If the property is worth $3/4 mil (a little above average around here but a nice round number) that's almost $700 a month in property taxes. You tell me where renters pay that much in taxes top subsidize homeowners. Doesn't happen here.
Sure I get to write off the interest to offset income, but that means I save about 25 cents on the dollar. Not even close to offsetting property taxes. It's worse in my case because hy house is almost paid off.

Property owners support those that rent.
People with a good education and good work ethic pay for those that don't.

Wow. All panhandlers and homeless are lazy opportunists.

Generalities are usually wrong. Someone mentioned the release of many marginally functioning people back into society back in he 70s. That is a contributor. There are those not on drugs or alcohol that simply cannot function in a societial environment and it is not their fault, but they get mixed in with those who are taking advantage of prople's gullibilty and kindness.

I do not give money to panhandlers. I learned a lesson from a nice minority lady I used to work with. A panhandler approached us as we were heading of to lunch and asked for money to buy lunch. My friend told her that she would not give her money but would buy her a sandwitch. I heard some interesting expletives that day.

One of my daughters works for a Charity. They have homeless women and children, victims of abuse. They also have recovering druggies as well. To most unfamiliar with that world, the difference is hard to spot. Both groups are homeless. In my daughter's world, there is a tremendous difference.

Judge not, lest you be judged.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1191180320.jpg
At least some are honest...

I have the fun of doing HAZ MAT inspections on underground gas tanks in the 'hood. The attached Stop and Robs have a unique collection of the nastiest 40 oz Malt Liquor and Fortified wines (think MD 20/20) in stock.

Nowhere else in this city is that crap sold...oh yeah, these S&Rs are right next door to the Salvation Army and other homeless shelters.

Oh yeah....that Ralph's above in the pics? Right across the street from the Greyhound Bus terminal.....

Two new ways of panhandling.

1. While in the Best Buy parking lot 2 women are patrolling the parking lot in different areas approaching people with a sign pleading their plight. After 3 times saying NO she moved on.

2 At a donut shop parking lot a guy comes up to people in the parking lot saying I know this sounds like a scam but I left my wallet and cell phone at home and I need $10-20 to put gas in my truck so I can go to my construction job. A week later he's still there.

There was a homeless guy that was hanging around the local Ralphs. I would always see him with a cell phone and even while talking on it, he'd ask for change. I would tell him that if he could afford the phone, he can afford not to beg. His answer - "it's a friends"... One day I saw him with a new pair of shoes, high-end sneakers. I asked a store clerk about the guy, turns out he made a good living at his spot and was homeless with a cell phone and a new pair of shows every few weeks.

He still pissed his pants as he was passed out on the sidewalk though :rolleyes:

2 hrs.? :eek: That nut-whack would've lasted about 2 mins. here (FLA). "Bubba the Sheriff" doesn't mess around! We've had 3 cops shot (2 killed) in the last month. They're pretty ansty right now.

On the other hand, we don't have a huge homeless population as you do in Calif. (I couldn't believe the "homeless city" in downtown Los Angeles when I was visiting a few years ago). Why? Most soup-kitchens are deemed "illegal" by the zoning department. There are a few in some churches, but even they get heat from the City Commission. If you don't feed them, they go away, I guess.

This exact thing almost happened to me about a year ago. A the bottom of a freeway offramp the bum was on the left side with his sign. A car on the far right was stopped to make a right turn. As I was approaching the bottom of the ramp in the far left lane, the stopped car at right holds out a dollar bill to the bum. Bum runs out across the offramp to get his cash, right in front of my car traveling about 30 mph at that point. Hitting the brakes and jerking the wheel to the right and I barely missed him. Fool never even looked to see if there were cars coming.

I agree with everything else you said Chris, but not this one. Homeowners generally pay more in property taxes, especially compared to apartment dwellers. Most homeowners probably pay more income taxes than renters as well. By the gubmit letting me keep more of my money (tax writeoff on home loan interest) I'm not getting subsidized by renters. They don't pay more, because I don't pay as much. Me personally, I pay more in taxes than the average family of four in the US even earns.

So I'm supposed to reward someone for simply being honest? Bah to that - I EXPECT honesty - I shouldn't have to offer a special incentive for it.

Who are you and what have you done with On-Ramp?

Let's see here, I've been a homeowner for about 12 yrs. now, have no kids and my taxes go up every single year, even when our values go down. The night classes I've taken I've had to pay for out of pocket. Somehow, I don't think anyone is subsidizing me.

My parents' property taxes in one year are about the same as a decent private school's tuition. My sister and I went to private school, my parents have to pay for private garbage pick-up, private snow removal and are allowed to go to the county recycling center twice a year. They sure are subsidizing someone.

Gee, I guess if you only quote that part of everything I said, I guess you are right. :rolleyes: But, I have a hard time believing the disabled people I've given money to are spending it in the liquor store. But, if they are, again-good for them and I'm glad to help.

On the other hand, I had a bum come up to me in my car as I waited at a red light in Chicago. He actually reached through my sunroof and, for lack of a better description, ruffled my hair and demanded a cigarette. Naturally, I rubuffed this effrontery with some choice words. I was more concerned about the car than my doo because it was brand new - a Jetta GLi. He took exception to this and replied in kind and proceeded to kick a dent in my door. At this point the light was green - It was "go time" in more ways than one. Despite the fact that I now had the signal to continue on my way, I got out to deal him the abuse he so deserved. He apparently thought better of it and decided the solution was to try to hold my door closed. That, having failed, was replaced by another sage move - playing possum. He basically dropped to the ground and played dead. I considered a sound kick to any part of the *********, but upon looking around saw we were the entertainment for the 5 o'clock crowd. Some were jesturing that I should give the bum a beating. I decided to move on and leave him laying there in the middle of the street. Did I mention a bus was coming?