Alonso sets the scene to split McLaren

[Aerkuld]

According to this article on BBC Sport...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7022171.stm

...Alonso does not want to be teamed with Hammy next year. Basically I think he's setting the scene to be off and make it look like it was his decision - but then I'm a cynic.

QUOTE:

Fernando Alonso says he would rather not continue alongside Lewis Hamilton at McLaren next year.
The Spaniard, set to lose the title to his team-mate, said: "I'd be delighted if I didn't carry on with Hamilton."

"If we are not together next season and I can go to a good car, then great. If we have to carry on together then we will have another great battle."

Meanwhile, Renault team boss Flavio Briatore has confirmed he has offered Alonso his old job back.

"I told Fernando that the moment he is free from McLaren we would be pleased to have him back," said Briatore.

Briatore is convinced Alonso would not have quit Renault if he had been aware he would receive the same treatment as a rookie.

"If, before signing the contract, they told Fernando, 'Come with us, but you won't have any sort of advantage', he wouldn't have gone," Briatore told Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport.

"If you hire a world champion, then you must give him the number one status."

The relationship between the two McLaren drivers deteriorated after Hamilton criticised Alonso last week.

Alonso, who was speaking in an interview with Spanish radio station SER, also denied speculation he could take 2008 off, returning to Formula One to drive for Ferrari when his McLaren contract runs out in two years' time.

"It hasn't entered into my plans not to race next year," he said.

"I don't have any news about Ferrari. They have a contract with Kimi Raikkonen and Felipe Massa for next year, it's not a possibility that has entered into my thoughts for the coming year."

Hamilton says he would rather Alonso was not still at McLaren next year, even if it meant the double world champion ending up at Ferrari.

"I'd much rather it were Fernando at Ferrari and me at McLaren," said Hamilton prior to winning at Fuji Speedway on Sunday.

Alonso's relationship with McLaren team boss Ron Dennis has broken down after a series of disagreements during the year.

It reached a low point during a row at the Hungarian Grand Prix in August over Alonso's status in the team.

Alonso threatened during the row to reveal incriminating e-mail evidence about McLaren's involvement in the spy row that has dominated the sport this summer to the sport's governing body, the FIA.

He quickly apologised and withdrew the threat, but not before Dennis had telephoned FIA president Max Mosley to tell him of the conversation.

It ultimately led to McLaren being thrown out of this year's constructors' championship and fined £49.2m for having confidential Ferrari technical information in their possession.

And Hamilton has turned up the pressure on McLaren to tear up Alonso's contract, which still has two years to run, by saying he sees a long-term future at the team.

Is anyone really suprised by this?

[Aerkuld]

This report goes hand-in-hand with the previous one too...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7016137.stm

...at least the feeling's mutual.

QUOTE:
Hamilton wants Alonso out of team

The idea of Alonso and Hamilton as team-mates seems untenable
Lewis Hamilton has said he does not think he and Fernando Alonso can continue together at McLaren next year.
The 22-year-old said he would rather the Spaniard left the team even if it meant Alonso ending up at Ferrari.

"I mean, if the team want to keep him, they keep him, but I'm here as long as they want me," said Hamilton, speaking before winning the Japanese Grand Prix.

"I don't know who else would slip in here, but I'd much rather it were Fernando at Ferrari and me at McLaren."

But the notion of Alonso moving to Ferrari has been quickly dispelled by the Italian team's manager Jean Todt.

"Zero percent," was Todt's response when asked about the chances of such a prospect.

"We have two fantastic drivers in Kimi (Raikkonen) and Felipe (Massa). We are very happy with them and they are under contract.

"I would respect a contract for a guy cleaning the floor, so you can imagine that I will respect a contract with them. If we have a contract, we respect it."

The relationship between Hamilton and Alonso has reached an all-time low after a weekend in which the Briton has lost no opportunity to criticise the double world champion.

Hamilton, whose victory puts him 12 points clear of Alonso with only 20 still available, said on Friday that he believed the team supported him more, and that he had been forced to revise his opinion of his team-mate in the light of recent events.

Alonso's relationship with McLaren team boss Ron Dennis has broken down after a series of disagreements during the year.

It reached a low point during a row at the Hungarian Grand Prix in August over Alonso's status in the team.

Alonso threatened during the row to reveal incriminating e-mail evidence about McLaren's involvement in the spy row that has dominated the sport this summer to the sport's governing body, the FIA.

He quickly apologised and withdrew the threat, but not before Dennis had telephoned FIA president Max Mosley to tell him of the conversation.

It ultimately led to McLaren being thrown out of this year's constructors' championship and fined £49.2m for having confidential Ferrari technical information in their possession.

And Hamilton has turned up the pressure on McLaren to tear up Alonso's contract, which still has two years to run, by saying he sees a long-term future at the team.

"This season has helped reconfirm in my mind where I want to be, where I want to see out my career, and that is here," he said.

"I'm really happy and comfortable here. So long as they want me, there's no reason to move anywhere else."

Alonso said on Friday he saw no reason not to stay at McLaren next season.

But Dennis increased speculation about the 26-year-old's future when he said on Saturday that Alonso's future would be discussed at the end of the season.

"If there are any changes they will only be discussed after the last Grand Prix," the 60-year-old said.

"There is at this stage nobody engaged in any dialogue whatsoever."

Alonso said on Friday: "For next year I have a contract with this team and I don't see any problem."

But Dennis refused to be drawn into talk about how the situation will develop and on Hamilton's assertion that Alonso needed to show more loyalty to the team.

"I've got a clear objective at the moment and nothing will deviate away from that, which is to focus on the balance of this year's season and races and then turn our attention to next year," Dennis said.

"All the issues of relationships and who said what and did what is immaterial. I'm not going to waste any of my energy on it and nor is any other member of the team.

"We've got a competitive tension within the team and what would you expect? But that's where it ends."

Dennis described Alonso as a "remarkable recluse for a driver" at a hearing earlier this month into the recent spy saga hearing and claimed that he had not been on speaking terms with the Spaniard since the beginning of August.

Alonso said in Japan that the difficulties between him and Dennis had been exaggerated by the media, and that the two men were engaging in "small talk".

[Joeaksa]

Poor baby, he wants everything to himself, even cheating to get ahead and when it does not work then he wants McLaren to either let Hamilton go (not gonna happen) or he will pout and slink off to another team.

Sorry but after the last race where Hamilton wiped the floor with everyone on the track in terrible conditions, Alonzo's only chance is if he forces Hamilton into the wall then wins both races.

[Ronbo]

Sounds like Prost/Senna at McLaren back in the late '80s all over again.

[the]

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

According to this article on BBC Sport...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7022171.stm

.

"If you hire a world champion, then you must give him the number one status."

That's normally true, and I'm sure Alonso had No. 1 status at the beginning of the year.

But the sport has NEVER seen a rookie like Hamilton. Hamilton was not given No. 1 status, he flat out took it, on the track, from Alonso.

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by the

That's normally true, and I'm sure Alonso had No. 1 status at the beginning of the year.

But the sport has NEVER seen a rookie like Hamilton. Hamilton was not given No. 1 status, he flat out took it, on the track, from Alonso.

I have to agree that Alonso had everything to loose - and lost it.

[Brian 162]

I'm not a big F1 fan however it's clear that Hamilton is the better driver of the two. Rookie or not if Alonso wanted #1 status he should have out performed Hamilton and he didn't.

[stealthn]

Originally Posted by the

But the sport has NEVER seen a rookie like Hamilton. Hamilton was not given No. 1 status, he flat out took it, on the track, from Alonso.

I respectfully disagree, all though not a rookie, Jacques Villeneuve in F1 is a lot like Hamilton (except for the big ego), he won in his second year (also won CART, INDY)

I think it's funny that Alonso feels because he is Champion he should be coddled by his team, and here the team rookie is going to win the championship; ironic.

[FastCarFan]

If Alonso leaves McLaren it would seem that his options are quite limited. If Ferrari is in fact "out of play" with Kimi & Massa, that leaves Renault & possibly the improving BMW? I cannot see him going to a non-championship caliber team. I don't think Alonso would want to be teamed with Kimi at Ferrari -- he would not be #1 there either.

It will be interesting to watch. Too bad the Japanese GP was so weird -- I was looking forward to a real fight. However, Hamilton was very, very impressive in the horrific conditions. He is the real deal.

Let's hope the final 2 races produce some epic battles.

[sammyg2]

I think they are evenly matched but hammy had an advantage. Maybe hammy is slightly faster on the track but much of that is his bully driving technique. Sooner or later the other drivers will stop getting out of his way and he will rack up the DNFs. That's my prediction for him next year. He is better at playing chicken, but alonso knows how to dial a car in. Without alonso's help getting his car set up I doubt hammy would be in the lead.
i don't think renault will be that competitive next year but who knows? I don't think hammy will be anywhere near the top next year, in fact I'm going to go out on a limb right now and predict a ferrari dominance nect season. Bookmark it now so you can throw it in my face a year from now if I'm way off

[the]

Originally Posted by stealthn

I respectfully disagree, all though not a rookie, Jacques Villeneuve in F1 is a lot like Hamilton (except for the big ego), he won in his second year (also won CART, INDY)

Hmm, I guess I can't argue much with that. Now that you mention it, I do recall that Villenueve had a pretty spectacular rookie year.

Villenueve in F1 is kinda easy to forget sometimes. After so much promise in his rookie year, and the WC the second year, he had a relatively disappointing F1 career.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by FastCarFan

If Alonso leaves McLaren it would seem that his options are quite limited. If Ferrari is in fact "out of play" with Kimi & Massa, that leaves Renault & possibly the improving BMW? I cannot see him going to a non-championship caliber team. I don't think Alonso would want to be teamed with Kimi at Ferrari -- he would not be #1 there either.

It will be interesting to watch. Too bad the Japanese GP was so weird -- I was looking forward to a real fight. However, Hamilton was very, very impressive in the horrific conditions. He is the real deal.

Let's hope the final 2 races produce some epic battles.

+100

I could not say it better myself.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by stealthn

I respectfully disagree, all though not a rookie, Jacques Villeneuve in F1 is a lot like Hamilton (except for the big ego), he won in his second year (also won CART, INDY)

I think it's funny that Alonso feels because he is Champion he should be coddled by his team, and here the team rookie is going to win the championship; ironic.

Was thinking exactly the same thing about Jacques Villeneuve.

Difference is that Hamilton is way low on experience but sure does not show it from his driving!

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Alonzo goes to Spyker. Hamilton stays at McLaren. Kimi & Massa stay at Ferrari. Weber goes to BMW.

[Lothar]

At the beginning of the season, I would have been happy to see Alonso win another WDC. Now, you can count me as an ABFA fan: Anyone but Fernando Alonso. That a-hole can't handle being beaten legitimately on the track by his rookie teammate. Well that's too fargin' bad.

If Alonso wants #1 status, let him earn it like anyone else. If that dim-wit had done his homework, he would have known that McLaren, under Ron Dennis, has never had a #1 driver in terms of team orders and preferential treatment. #1 emerges as the season progresses and one driver has a clear lead in the points. Even then, Ron insists on letting his drivers race eachother, so long as it doesn't hurt the overall team performance.

Even the incident with the pre-race agreement between Coulthard and Hakkinen in Australia, that got rather stern warnings from the FIA, was an agreement that who ever led into the first turn between the two McLaren's would go unchallenged by his teammate. But, it was still a race to the first corner.

As a McLaren fan, I hope FA leaves at the end of the season. I think Spyker would be a good place for him.

[Scott at Pelican Parts]

Alonso will take next year off, then drive for Ferrari in 2009. That's what Bernie says.

[Noah930]

Waa waa waa. FA's been a crybaby and brat for the last 3 years. Glad someone (who actually looks pretty classy, no less) is finally handing his hat to him. Equal cars, no experience, and Hamilton beats him in the toughest measure of a racecar driver--in the rain.

[MFAFF]

Guys,

Amongst all this FA/LH BS you are forgetting a couple of really big issues...

1) RD has lost his chief designer mid season and still needs to design and develop the 2008 car. So the team needs a new designer (not exactly millions of them around) and a very decent development team to make the car really sing for next year. PDLR is a good driver but nowhere near FA in terms of getting the last % points out of it, and LH has limited experience here...so who are MCL going to get to develop next year's car...remember having JPM and KR on board? with PDRL as test driver...opps a few seasons of top flight but not the dominance seen this year with the FA honed car. Look to Renaults' performance curve with FA as their driver.. 2 WDC against Ferrari and MS.

2) LH used FA's set up for the first few races and has done so again since the US GP.
I think LH is a better race driver than FA, although not as good as Kimi. Overall however the results that FA has against LH's lower fromula record tends to suggest that FA is a better driver. He does test better, provides more input into honing the car and from the record it would appear that this pattern was present in the lower formulae as well. The team therefore has a dilemma. It knows that having the best race driver is not enough to win, as the seasons since Mika left have demonstrated. They need, as do all teams, see Ferrari this season and Renault, a race driver who can and will develop the car. Damon Hill was possibly the best example of a great driver winnning the WDC in spite of nor being the best race driver, but winning it by hard work in testing to make sure he had the best car (and before any of you say otherwise he was with Williams for the previous season with Senna and as test driver the seaon before. HE was the reason Williams had the best car in 96 and in 97 when JV won the championship). JV is possibly the best example of a top flight race driver who was totally unable to develop the car.

RD knows that if he takes his eye off the ball (look to when MCL were developing the F1 road car or their Technology Centre to see that effect) he will not have a front row 'lock out' capable car. He also knows that having the best driver is more important than having the best race driver. If FA does leave his logical home is back with Renault. He will be physically closer to home, Renault being in Enstone near Oxford, whilst MCL are in Chertsy, about 90mins drive away. He will also be rejoining a team with whom he has already established a good rapport, and to listen to them he is not the prima donna character being painted currently.

My feeling is that LH is very much like JV. Give him a fantastic car and he will outdrive anyone. Give him a mediocre car and he will win on occassion. Give him a car to develop and he will bcome a 'fighting' midfield runner....see Williams with JV post Hill.

3) RD wants two things in life. The Constructors Championship for MCL and #1 on the nose of one of his cars. Who drives the car is a means to this end. He does not care if it is LH who wins or FA. He simply wants to have the best driver line up he can; to be honest he has it right now and to me the longer term success of MCL is best served by retaining either the present paring if possible or retaining FA until they can get a 'better' test driver than PDLR, who needs to get back into a racing seat, with somebody like Toro Rosso or even Red Bull (ditch DC) to get back into competition to see what the real task is again. Until he has the best test driver to generate the best car he cannot afford to simply have the best race driver on the team... and he knows it. That's why he was not too disappointed when JPM 'left' nor when KR left for Ferrari...he knew that neither was going to deliver what he needed at the time. FA does deliver and RD knows it...whether or not he can kept FA remains to be seen. But I'm with Sammyg on this one, if FA goes watch MCL's performance dip back into the pack and lose their supremacy.

4) Don't believe a word Jean Todt says about FA going to Ferrari. He will be gone by season's end, replaced by the most ruthless engineer there is, Ross Brawn, who will place far more store on development over race capability. He will have no trouble using FA, cheat rep or not...look at RB's record with Benetton and Ferrari for his approach. He will also not be too 'delicate' about who is or is not #1 driver. He cares not. He will make up his mind in terms of who delivers the most for the team. Before it was MS, certainly KR delivers on race day, but does he deliver in testing? Perhaps not as much....

Interesting times, but in the bigger picture FA currently has a greater coverage of that picture than LH.

[Aerkuld]

Some interesting points MFAFF, and a very different perspective on the situation.
I guess I could search for some news articles for confirmation, but wasn’t Mike Coughlan only suspended from McLaren? I didn’t think he’d actually been fired, in which case the car design could continue to progress under his supervision and McLaren will not be adversely affected in that area.
The Development team is another matter all together. I agree entirely that Alonso most likely contributed significantly to the development of the car. I also agree that Hamilton is almost certainly not yet at the level where he can develop the chassis and set it up to the same extent. It will take several seasons, I would have thought, for him to gain familiarity with the machine and the variables involved, and even then he has to have the degree of ‘feel’ to be good at it (which he likely does). In the meantime Ron will need someone to race alongside Hamilton who is experienced enough to be able to develop it and provide effective race set ups. While there maybe experienced drivers on the grid I have doubts that Ron would want someone who is maybe getting a bit long in the tooth and would probably ere on the side of youth, exuberance, and experience. I can’t get Heidfeld out of my head as a possible candidate. Looking at what he has done with the BMW Sauber this year I would imagine that he is maturing well as a technical driver and may compliment Hammy well. Off the top of my head I can’t really think of anyone else out there that could compete at the level that would be expected. As for a test driver, I simply can’t imagine. Do you think that the team philosophy on test drivers is about 75% car development and 25% future talent development, or are they more focused purely on the car? I would think that a potential test driver may not be too difficult to find and significantly easier to change than a race driver.
All in all, with the great number of assumptions that I have made above, I don’t think McLaren’s performance will suffer. But out of all of the things that may be difficult, a good second race driver is probably the key. So to your point, as much as Alonso has been kicking and screaming this year, it may be in the team’s best interest to attempt to keep him and put up with his attitude.

[Lothar]

Mike Coughlan does not design cars. He is a paper pusher who signs off on drawings that are ready to go to production. He has little influence over the development of the car.

Read the WMSC transcripts. Coughlan's role is explained very clearly.