The Ivory Tower and Indoctrination

[frogger]

Requoted for the reading impaired.

You're dealing with real people with real feelings, shortcomings, etc. Just like the real world after college.

Chris, I think your vision of school and government were/are unrealistic.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by legion

College is not the real world.

No, the illusion that is sold is one of total academic freedom.

See? You did learn something in college...

Maybe you should start your own school. Where people can get "the truth". If we can handle it that is

[legion]

Originally Posted by frogger

Requoted for the reading impaired.



Chris, I think your vision of school and government were/are unrealistic.

That they are flawed organizations that deserve to be held to a high standard?

[pwd72s]

Not only college, boys...the indoctrination is in full force in Government screw-alls K-12. I guess you didn't figure that out until you were in college? Much of this is censorship through omission.

[mattdavis11]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Not only college, boys...the indoctrination is in full force in Government screw-alls K-12. I guess you didn't figure that out until you were in college? Much of this is censorship through omission.

You trying to tell me that kids actually learn schit in K-12? I thought it was just a good trade off where I got to hang out with my friends and in return I'd be an a$$ in a seat so the school district could get money from the state coffers.

[frogger]

Originally Posted by legion

That they are flawed organizations that deserve to be held to a high standard?

Some colleges are better than others. Some are more liberal, some more conservative, and some are a mixed bag. Sorry your college was such a disappointment.

[Christien]

I spent 7 years between 2 universities (3 if you count summer courses) doing my undergrad and masters, including classes in philosophy, media, film, sociology, etc. and with the exception of one clear wingnut, I can't say I ever came across a prof that, politically at least, tried to sway students one way or the other. In philosophy we were frequently asked to argue the opposite of our personal beliefs to better understand the issues. I found myself frequently with more (socially) liberal attitudes than most profs, anyway, and that was the norm amongst students. Most of the profs were older and more conservative than most of the students.

The exception was one guy who tought a sociology summer course I took. He was interesting, I'll give him that! He'd rant up and down about how society would be so much better if we all just paid our taxes! Man, I chuckle about it just remembering him! We all thought he was a bit loony. He definitely tried to sway the class in his way, very overtly, but because it was a summer course it was full of tons of different people than the majority of the student body - lots of older people there for fun, mature students, kids making up failed credits from the preceding school year (ahem...) and we all challenged his views as much as he challenged ours.

I couldn't agree more that college/university isn't the real world. Bright kids need a place they can spend a few years really exercising their brains, and that includes political activism, speaking out, etc.

I would say college isn't so much about challenging other people's ideas as it is about having your own ideas and beliefs challenged. If they can't stand up to being challenged without falling back on dogma (or worse, scripture), then I'd say they're not very firm.

[legion]

Back to the article:

In 2005, Emily Brooker, a social work student at Missouri State University, was enrolled in a class taught by a professor who advertised himself as a liberal and insisted that social work is a liberal profession. At first, a mandatory assignment for his class was to advocate homosexual foster homes and adoption, with all students required to sign an advocacy letter, on university stationery, to the state Legislature.

Can anyone argue this is not a form of indroctination? Here, a student was forced to adopt and publicly advocate for one side of a specific issue--then was punished when she did not comply. This is far from "total academic freedom".

I had a similar situation in high school, albeit not as severe. A government teacher was running for local office (a Republican). He offered extra credit to students that worked on his campaign. Administration got wind, and he changed to offer to extra credit for a student that worked on a campaign.

[Christien]

Sure, those are both great examples of terrible teachers and such activity should always be discouraged. I'm sure you could find exactly the same examples on the other side of the political fence, too.

[mattdavis11]

That doesn't sound so bad to me. As you read through the letter, cross out the portions that you disagree with, and insert language that reflects your stance on the subject. Sign with a different color pen.

[frogger]

The article talks of lawsuits and settlements, so, to me, that sounds like some serious discouraging. Does anyone actually believe in a perfect institution with perfect staff? If so, I have a nifty bridge to sell you for a truly excellent price.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by frogger

The article talks of lawsuits and settlements, so, to me, that sounds like some serious discouraging. Does anyone actually believe in a perfect institution with perfect staff? If so, I have a nifty bridge to sell you for a truly excellent price.

Tell me more of this bridge you so glowingly speak of. Exactly how nifty? And is the price truly excellent or merely excellent?

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Christien

Sure, those are both great examples of terrible teachers and such activity should always be discouraged. I'm sure you could find exactly the same examples on the other side of the political fence, too.

that's just crazy talk. Everyone *knows* that only liberals do this kind of stuff. No right-winger would ever, say, form an organization (National Asoociation of Scholars) and try to pass off an agenda as unbiased.

And besides, one bad example is enough to indict all of higher education. That's just the way it works, silly...

[frogger]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Tell me more of this bridge you so glowingly speak of. Exactly how nifty? And is the price truly excellent or merely excellent?

Quite nifty and truly excellent. Would your trust in my offer be increased if I said I was in academia?

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by frogger

Quite nifty and truly excellent. Would your trust in my offer be increased if I said I was in academia?

Perhaps. Do you have a liberal agenda to shove down my throat? If not, how can I be sure you're really in academia?

[frogger]

I'll get someone to paint the bridge in rainbow colors. Will that be suffiicient to demonstrate a liberal agenda?

[nostatic]

Only if they do it while having homosexual relations and enabling the welfare state.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Tell me how "intelligent design" is an example of liberalism pushing an agenda whilst masquerading as academic scholarship. . .

Oh yeah. . .

[DARISC]

Hi,

My name is David and I am a university graduate.

My mind began being subverted beginning in my freshman year. Being of genetically weak will and having a Puritan work ethic, I stuck it out for four years, just to get a diploma so I could get a better than average job.

I succeded in getting the diploma but by that time it was too late; my mind had become so badly warped that I applied to go to grad school where, as every thinking person knows, restrictions on thinking and asking questions are even more severe.

I completed grad school and was granted another diploma.

I have never been the same since that first freshman class.

I am so sorry for all the people I have hurt.

I am repentant and remorseful now, but it's just too late I fear .

[Superman]

Todd figured this one out, too. No, college is not for the purpose of students challenging teachers' ideas. Indeed, there is a fairly clear division of roles. "Teacher." "Student." The other students in class did not pay $X,XXX to watch a fellow student change the thinking of a teacher. They paid that money to hear the teacher.

Even (and this part is important) EVEN IF there is a student in class who disagrees with the professor.