Public Sector Management

Superman · 10-19-2007, 08:53 AM

This talk of Homeland Security has me thinking. Again, it is my observation that the Bush "administration" (not really an accurate term, but rather just a standard title) is perhaps not made up of a bunch of guys who believe in gubmit and I think it's fair to say they have not spent their careers learning and thinking about how to manage a public agency.

Rather, they are (with the exception of Dubya himself) successful businessmen. And the thought is "Well, how hard can it be compared to private sector management?"

I have worked in both the public sector and the private sector and can report unequivocally that public sector management is MUCH more difficult. MUCH. To start, imagine having a Board of Directors (legislature or Congress) that is split between people who favor your work and those who hate your guts and are trying to kill your funding and your mandate. Add to that the fact that every document in your office and every hand note is a public record and for the price of a postage stamp, the people who hate you can send you into a pubic record search tailspin with a short time clock. Whatever else you need to do......needs to be set aside in favor of this public record request. Imagine further that your decisions impact a wide range of other organizations and businesses, and that they and their associations are well funded and have excellent attorneys in case you fail to cross a "t" or dot an "i."

And there's more. But that's a start. This is offered in a spirit of information-sharing. I suspect there is little sensitivity among a few of you as to the peculiarities of public sector administration. It's a longshot, but perhaps the above information will inform. Regardless, I'll keep trying. Won't I?

onewhippedpuppy · 10-19-2007, 08:56 AM

Ummmmm, thanks?

lendaddy · 10-19-2007, 09:03 AM

This is evidenced by all the government employees we all know that are always so stressed out and bringing work home with them

Superman · 10-19-2007, 09:07 AM

I think you're trying to say something Len. What is it? When I worked for the local Labor department, I ordered two catalogue-style briefcases. You know, the large square ones wtih double-fold at the top. About the size of a microwave oven. They went home with me daily. I literally wore them out.

Superman · 10-19-2007, 09:15 AM

And I guess that's my point, Len. To achieve the same degree of progress, it might be useful to notice that public sector managers have MUCH deeper mud to wade through. It is deliberately slow-going. There are folks who are actively trying to make you fail. The size of the tasks (regulating an entire industry) are higher.........and the roadblocks are higher also. The bar is high and the ankle weights are heavy. Private sector management is a snap by comparison. Your enemies can keep all their documents and discussions and tactics secret to you, while showring you with records requests and depositions. A coordinated public records request campaign can fairly easily bring any public office to its knees. For many months. Impossible to do other business.

lendaddy · 10-19-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

To achieve the same degree of progress, it might be useful to notice that public sector managers have MUCH deeper mud to wade through. It is deliberately slow-going.

Keep going, you're starting to get it.

VaSteve · 10-19-2007, 09:59 AM

Supe, it's far more complicated. You often have to answer to people that have NO IDEA what they are talking about/doing. Problems are pushed off to the right for years because they are so complex (just the people aspect of it, often). I don't typically see the day-to-day career gov't managers as worring so much about FOIA requests and the public record. The issues are far harder to deal with than just that. Sometimes to get something accomplished, you literally have to wait out someone to retire.

Superman · 10-19-2007, 10:04 AM

Yes, Steve. it is systemic.

lendaddy · 10-19-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaSteve

Supe, it's far more complicated. You often have to answer to people that have NO IDEA what they are talking about/doing. Problems are pushed off to the right for years because they are so complex (just the people aspect of it, often). I don't typically see the day-to-day career gov't managers as worring so much about FOIA requests and the public record. The issues are far harder to deal with than just that. Sometimes to get something accomplished, you literally have to wait out someone to retire.

As an outsider this doesn't sound like a system designed to get things done.

onewhippedpuppy · 10-19-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lendaddy

As an outsider this doesn't sound like a system designed to get things done.

You too?!

Rearden · 10-19-2007, 10:10 AM

The quality of the workforce is generally higher in the private sector. It's almost as if those in the public sector are people who couldn't get good jobs in the private sector...

So you're right -- it's always more difficult to manage less-talented and less-motivated employees.

VaSteve · 10-19-2007, 10:10 AM

It's not designed. It just happened by the way things evolved. Very hard to get rid of people in the gov't. Combine that with the way they hire....hard to get a job and then ***** about how hard it is to get good people. I'm a gov't consultant for the Federal space. If I wanted a Fed job I would have to spend hours on an application (www.usajobs.com) and wait months for an interview. If I wanted a job at another consulting/contracting firm doing almost the same work, I would send a resume and get an interview that week.

I have met gov't managers who are execellent stewards and public servants. I have met incompetent fools as well. Then again, I know a lot of people in the private sector with similar faults.

VaSteve · 10-19-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rearden

The quality of the workforce is generally higher in the private sector. It's almost as if those in the public sector are people who couldn't get good jobs in the private sector...
.

I think that is the perception, not the reality. If you're talking about the clerks at the DMV, sure, but real high level and not face-to-the-public folks, it's about the same.

lendaddy · 10-19-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaSteve

I have met gov't managers who are execellent stewards and public servants. I have met incompetent fools as well. Then again, I know a lot of people in the private sector with similar faults.

I don't blame the people, it's the system. A good man can only do so much when he's trapped within such a mess.

lendaddy · 10-19-2007, 10:19 AM

I would add that the system sucks the soul from many otherwise productive folks. I have seen this myself, they just eventually succumb to the pointlessness.

livi · 10-19-2007, 10:31 AM

I have, amazingly, grown rather fond of the basic principals of the public health care sector in Sweden. Admittedly, the chap who divides out the money wouldn´t know a pneumonia from a constipation, hence there are a lot of money and red tape down the drain. Regularly frustrating I suppose, I wouldn´t know. Different administrations come and go, different political talks and agendas, but on the floor it is all the same patients - same work. Pretty funny, when you contemplate how much resourses are spent up stairs in order to stay in office, but the real work down stairs is only marginally affected. Crazy.

Superman · 10-19-2007, 10:33 AM

I'm not going to disagree, Len. Eventually, the hill is so steep over such a long period of time, and the Forces of Evil so effective at their anarchistic agenda, that public servants give up.

Rearden, it's not that gubmit workers cannot get a job elsewhere. It's that nobody in the private sector wants to take on that kind of frustration for that kind of pay. If you're a gubmit worker and someone asks you what you do.......you should consider lying. We think of gubmit workers as scum. Low paid scum. When in fact, these managers have such a powerful effect on peoples' lives and business' freedoms that it would make way more sense to pay them MORE than the private sector rather than less, and to respect them for their work and be grateful. Public servants should be MORE respected than private sector folks, not less. There is no better place to apply the talents of a gifted manager than in public service. We NEED.....DESPERATELY......good managerial talent there. Do we get it? Nope. Guess why.

VaSteve · 10-19-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

I'm not going to disagree, Len. Eventually, the hill is so steep over such a long period of time, and the Forces of Evil so effective at their anarchistic agenda, that public servants give up.

Rearden, it's not that gubmit workers cannot get a job elsewhere. It's that nobody in the private sector wants to take on that kind of frustration for that kind of pay. If you're a gubmit worker and someone asks you what you do.......you should consider lying. We think of gubmit workers as scum. Low paid scum. When in fact, these managers have such a powerful effect on peoples' lives and business' freedoms that it would make way more sense to pay them MORE than the private sector rather than less, and to respect them for their work and be grateful. Public servants should be MORE respected than private sector folks, not less. There is no better place to apply the talents of a gifted manager than in public service. We NEED.....DESPERATELY......good managerial talent there. Do we get it? Nope. Guess why.

Hear hear. Talent should be paid well. You have people that run MASSIVE BILLION $ government agencies and programs being paid $160K. You have people running small $100M companies paid in the millions. And basketball players (where would society be without them) also paid in the millions. Those are our role models.

Most of the high level gov't functionaries are only doing it to make a name for themselves in their next career. Take an "investment" for a couple of years....it's great experience.

Moneyguy1 · 10-19-2007, 01:35 PM

len...

Like Supe, I have had to work with both the private and the public sectors. You, with only limitied experience in one of these sectors, has this idea that you could run things better. Maybe you could, but waxing eloquent with no facts to back you up really makes you look a bit silly. Anecdotal information is of little value.

I say this with the utmost respect, but please....if you do not know something is so, why state you do?

Superman · 10-19-2007, 01:42 PM

Bob, I've come to respect Len a bit. Given his experiences and environment, this views are expected. He's fairly rational in his approach and respectful. His knowledge is increasing, and I think he soaks all this up with a fairly open mind. He already wishes he were a gubmit worker.