Who Killed the electric car?

[Jims5543]

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

Anyone seen this. It popped up on another forum and the guy that watched (who I personally think is a pretty cool guy and not a bandwagon type) said it was very well doen and very compelling.

I remember the GM Electric car in the 90's and then it just fading away. I really never paid attention.

I am going to rent this next week and give it a look. I dismissed it as another Micheal Moore or Inconvenient Truth type of hype. But it is supposidly well done and not over the top.

[DanielDudley]

Good flick.

GM made a heck of a good electric car. They could have sold many more, just as Toyota has now sold a million hybrids. Go figure.

[kaisen]

Lotsa differences between a full electric (GM EV1) and the ICE hybrid (ala Prius). Bringing a lead-acid full electric to market was/is not the best solution. We are all still waiting for that solution. Battery technology (not auto technology) is what 'killed' the electric car, although it's not dead .... just hybernating.

[the]

I agree, lack of progress in battery tech, plus incredible increases in progress in efficiency/emissions of gas engines, and hybrid tech.

[kaisen]

I think the plug-in 'series' hybrids (like what GM has proposed for the Volt) will be the short-term transition to pure electric.

[Z-man]

I think the next big thing will the the hydrogren fuel cell. Mark my words...

-Z

[kaisen]

Originally posted by Z-man
I think the next big thing will the the hydrogren fuel cell. Mark my words...

-Z

The hydrogen fuel cell can be (and is, kinda) a series hybrid. They could use any means of generating electricity to power the motors: gas, diesel, biofuels, batteries, solar, hydrogen engines, hydrogen fuel cells, etc.

When the infrastucture for hydrogen is there, it will be a revolutionary advance. China will be the venue.

[dean]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Just cements the fact that GM is a company run like a zombie with its head cut off...

-Wayne

And they are running our country now.

I don't think hydrogen will work. It takes too much energy to make and the whole infrastructure would have to change. Oh but the Government's and oil comp. are on board, so they will push for it. More money for them.

I think it will be diesel hybrids. You can make Biodiesel out of a lot of things. Like hemp and allege and politicians. I vote we start with the politicians

[kaisen]

China is poised to make a case for hydrogen infrastructure there.

[ChrisBennet]

To my mind, electric vehicles are just "remote emissions" vehicles (coal buring power plants anyone?) with the added inefficiencies of converting between energy types and carrying around heavy batteries.

Give me a MINI Cooper diesel any day (when I'm wealthy and they bring them to the US). The MINI diesel is their "cleanest" offering according to what I read.
-Chris

[legion]

Originally posted by ChrisBennet
To my mind, electric vehicles are just "remote emissions" vehicles (coal buring power plants anyone?) with the added inefficiencies of converting between energy types and carrying around heavy batteries.

Yep.

There is only one source of energy: nuclear.

We either get it from fission, or from the sun (fusion).

We can collect energy from the sun through solar, through wind, or through plants that died millions of years ago (fossil fuels).

[kaisen]

Originally posted by legion
Yep.

There is only one source of energy: nuclear.

We either get it from fission, or from the sun (fusion).

We can collect energy from the sun through solar, through wind, or through plants that died millions of years ago (fossil fuels).

Great points! I'd like to see sun, wind, or water generating the electricity rather than coal or other polluting fuels. But others have correctly pointed out the inefficiencies of power grid transmission and storage (batteries).

[bigchillcar]

lots of folks at the airport make bio-diesel for their diesel vehicles. costs around 49 cents per gallon by the time they figure expenses.

[Soterik]

Diesel, Diesel, Diesel (for automotive use)

Mercedes has already done one AMG diesel, and more are in the works. Biodiesel is in it's infancy and growing rapidly. Tailpipe emissions have been cut drastically since 2000. Make a diesel hybrid, and the benefits increase dramatically. As I recall the E320CDI mercedes sedan is faster 0-60 than the gas version, gets better mileage than its premium required gas sister, and is only $1,000 more.

I'll also take solar, wind, and nuclear for the home!

e

[nota]

LOVE MY 300SD
BIG CAR BIG MILEAGE NUMBERS
ABLE TO RUN ON WASTE OIL

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Naturally CA in their infinite wisdom, does not allow for the sale of diesel-powered passenger vehicles in the state. Not even new cleaner "low-sulfur" diesel. You can't buy a VW Tdi here. You can't buy a diesel Mercedes here (although you can bring them in from other states). Oddly enough for a few years you couldn't buy a new Audi TT here either because it "didn't meet emissions requirements", yet you can go next door and buy a V-10 "Powerstroke" diesel truck that emits three times what any of the other vehicles would. Go figure.

Not to mention the vehicles I see on the road that are the absolute WORST, spewing the most particulate matter are. . . school buses. And they have no seat belts to boot. Some of the old ones (I'm told) don't even have safety glass.

[nostatic]

One argument for electric cars (despite the displaced/remote generation) is that it is easier to control emissions on a power plant than it is on millions of individual engines.

Unless I'm missing something, is there that much difference between gas and diesel? They're both burning fossil fuel. Lower refining costs for diesel?

[HardDrive]

I wonder if we can use liquefied Soylent Green in our cars?

[dean]

Originally posted by nostatic


Unless I'm missing something, is there that much difference between gas and diesel? They're both burning fossil fuel. Lower refining costs for diesel?

One difference is that Diesels get about 25% better fuel mileage that gasoline vehicles. Another difference is that you can make biofuel for diesels more effieciently than for gas. If our useless government legalized hemp, then it could be made into biofuels on the land that they pay farmers not to grow anything.

I actually don't think it is going to be one thing that we are going to have to rely on, but a bunch of smaller things. We use solar energy to dry our cloths.

Imagine the fuel saving is all semis were diesel/hybrids.

In our town there are 2 rivers that are damned. If the stupid State would allow them to put generators in that would be year around power with very little down sides.

[Z-man]

Originally posted by dean
And they are running our country now.

I don't think hydrogen will work. It takes too much energy to make and the whole infrastructure would have to change. Oh but the Government's and oil comp. are on board, so they will push for it. More money for them.

I think it will be diesel hybrids. You can make Biodiesel out of a lot of things. Like hemp and allege and politicians. I vote we start with the politicians

I think biodiesel and biodiesel hybrids will be the next thing to market, but it won't be the final step.

Granted, no one currently has the infrastructure for hydrogen, but give it time -- I heard about a year ago, that car companies are able to produce a viable hydrogen powered car NOW. Problem is, that it would cost $3 million in R&D, and said car would have to sell for around $1 million. No one is going to buy a car for $1 mil. that has the same performance characteristics that a Camry does. But give it time, and like all things, car companies will figure out how to get a production car to market for a more reasonable cost.

The "emisisons" that a hydrogen fuel cell produces is water. As long as they can figure out how to make liquid hydrogen without using resources that are limited (like fossil fuels), that solution is the best idea going. But it will probably take 10-20 years to bring such a solution to market. Till then, biodiesel will fill the gap.

Betcha Audi's next racer will run not on diesel, but on bio-diesel. IIRC, Peugot is also making strides in the diesel racing industry.

-Z-man.