Check Fraud how to press charges?

Jims5543 · 10-31-2007, 09:21 AM

I had a customer write me a $2400 check from a closed account in order to get his hands on a set of plans I was holding until I got paid.

I have never had to do this before, how do I go about pressing charges on this?

id10t · 10-31-2007, 09:48 AM

Contact your local sherrif's office or state attorney's office.... and maybe see if you can file a quick lein on any of their stuff...

stomachmonkey · 10-31-2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by id10t

Contact your local sherrif's office or state attorney's office.... and maybe see if you can file a quick lein on any of their stuff...

I think you'd have a case for filing a lien on the property in question.

NICKG · 10-31-2007, 10:51 AM

ah, that would also be a felony in alot of places, so he would likely go to jail. call the police and let them handle it.

Jims5543 · 10-31-2007, 11:00 AM

That what I thought, he purposefully wrote a check against a closed account in order to get the plans from me. Thinking he will not need me again.

Funny part?

I suspected he might do this so I purposefully left some data off so he will not pass inspection and need revised copies.

I'll call the Sheriff in the morning and file charges.

legion · 10-31-2007, 11:00 AM

Call your lawyer. You have grounds for a mechanic's lien.

I also think you have grounds for a civil suit, as he didn't just not pay you for services, he defrauded you to illegally obtain plans.

Call your lawyer, he can advise you on whether to purse a lien, a lawsuit, criminal charges, or all three.

Tobra · Tobra's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion

Call your lawyer. You have grounds for a mechanic's lien.

I also think you have grounds for a civil suit, as he didn't just not pay you for services, he defrauded you to illegally obtain plans.

Call your lawyer, he can advise you on whether to purse a lien, a lawsuit, criminal charges, or all three.

There is a difference between writing a check with NSF in account and writing one on a closed account. You need a lawyer. Civil and criminal issues here, may not be felony due to amount, but here it is 400 or 500 bucks and it is a felony

stomachmonkey · 10-31-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

I suspected he might do this so I purposefully left some data off so he will not pass inspection and need revised copies.

Sweet!

You do need to call anyone else in the area that he may try to hire to revise.

I can see him saying he is not going back to you cause you did a half a55ed job.

MRM · 10-31-2007, 11:56 AM

Call your local police's non-emergency number. Writing on a closed account is much more serious than writing an NSF check. The cops will have you file a report. You might have to push them to refer it to the city/county attorney but if you keep on them they should.

schamp · 10-31-2007, 12:40 PM

In many states now its 3 times the face value of the check or 100.00 dollars whichever is greater. Get his attention.

Danny_Ocean · 10-31-2007, 06:46 PM

Mechanics liens are filed before the fact, not after. The "release of mechanics lien" is recorded after payment is received.

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion

Call your lawyer. You have grounds for a mechanic's lien.

Hugh R · 10-31-2007, 08:27 PM

If you ever get where you don't ever want to do business with someone again, and can't get the money through whatever means, as a last revenge, 1099 him to the IRS and let him be responsible to the IRS for the taxes as income.

Jims5543 · 11-01-2007, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh R

If you ever get where you don't ever want to do business with someone again, and can't get the money through whatever means, as a last revenge, 1099 him to the IRS and let him be responsible to the IRS for the taxes as income.

I have already discussed this with my accountant with some other clients. Its seems the new thing to do is run up a bill, change contractors, repeat.

With the business climate here being what it is, I am in a tough spot, do I chase away potential good clients in an effort to flush out bad ones with full credit checks, etc... Or do I keep going the way I am?

In the last 3 years I had one builder stick me for 23K, I put my foot down and demanded he pay up or I would not do another job for him, he moved on to another Surveyor never paying the bill, by the time I finished fighting with him 90% of the outstanding bills were over 90 days (120 days was normal for this company) and I was outside my legal right to lien the properties.

Another builder went bankrupt, stringing me along with promises to pay right up until the day they closed their doors. 11K gone.

Then a title company stuck me for another 11K, when I started to come after them the office manager threatened to take my biggest client away from me, and she could they were sister companies and she had a lot of pull, so I had to decide fight for 11K or keep my 11K a month client that pays well. I am convinced they collected my fee at closings and pocketed it, but, if I pursue it I will hurt my business greatly.

This guy that wrote this $2400 check, has taken over for the builder that went under, this was an unpaid bill from that builder, I have bent over backwards to appease this guy in order to get paid, I was sick of the stories about a bank draw coming any day now for 3 months and put my foot down. So he wrote a check from a closed account to get his revised plans to pull his permit to build the house.

I also just had another client of the builder that went under come to me to finish their property, I have to break the bad news to them that all their bills on their home are unpaid the the builder ran up a $850 tab on their house as well.

If I get both of these two paid up I will have recovered $3250 of that 11K on that one builder.

BTW- That one builder only worked with me for 4 months, just as I started to get on their case to pay up they closed down. It seems there was a surveyor before me that cut this builder off as well, I was told the other surveyor was not doing his job. This is totally believable there are lot of hacks around these parts.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Did you prepare the drawings? If so you have an automatic copyright on them and his use of them is illegal.

Unfortunately, you can expect more of this kind of scumbag behavior from increasingly desperate subs and G.C.s who grew accustomed to thinking the gravy train of endless free-money backed work would last forever.

id10t · 11-01-2007, 04:26 AM

Porsche-O-Phile - copyright would only keep him from *redistributing* the work... and as a "work for hire" hte theif would probably own the copyright anyway...

stomachmonkey · 11-01-2007, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by id10t

Porsche-O-Phile - copyright would only keep him from *redistributing* the work... and as a "work for hire" hte theif would probably own the copyright anyway...

Not necc, copyright needs to be transferred by the creator even in a work for hire situation, EX: wedding photogs are work for hire but almost no one owns the copyright to their own wedding album.

MRM · 11-01-2007, 05:56 AM

This is a good word to the wise. With the economy slowing down and the construction industry in the dumpster, there are a lot of builders who don't have enough money to cover their obligations. It is one of the oldest scams in the book for a contractor to run up a bill with a sub or supplier and either skip out on it or "renegotiate" the charges on the grounds that something is better than nothing. People who wouldn't normally do this get desperate as they start fearing for their livelyhood.

RickM · RickM's Garage

Quote: "Then a title company stuck me for another 11K, when I started to come after them the office manager threatened to take my biggest client away from me, and she could they were sister companies and she had a lot of pull, so I had to decide fight for 11K or keep my 11K a month client that pays well. I am convinced they collected my fee at closings and pocketed it, but, if I pursue it I will hurt my business greatly."

Isn't this blackmail?

Don't assume you'll win..

As a favor to the limo company owner who we used for our wedding, I repaired a FAX machine (When they were expensive). We agreed that he would pay for the parts and I would supply labor free of charge. Hey, why not, he had done a good job for the wedding.

$200+ in parts, bring the repaired FAX to his office and he gladly writes a check for the parts cost.

Turned out he wrote the check against a closed account. Said he wasn't happy with the repair....?????? After that I couldn't reach him.

Went to small claims court where he claimed he discounted my wedding services in exchage for the repair.

Does any of this make sense? Limo services were rendered before he even asked for the repair. He wrote a check after using the machine.

The loser judge let the POS off...completely. Maybe because he wanted to side with the local business guy. Who knows.

I walked out of there and 90% of the people, including the court cops, were shaking their heads in disbelief.

Jims5543 · 11-01-2007, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickM

Quote: "Then a title company stuck me for another 11K, when I started to come after them the office manager threatened to take my biggest client away from me, and she could they were sister companies and she had a lot of pull, so I had to decide fight for 11K or keep my 11K a month client that pays well. I am convinced they collected my fee at closings and pocketed it, but, if I pursue it I will hurt my business greatly."

Isn't this blackmail?

Yes, it was and it worked. I am not willing to gamble a client that brings me in this much in a month.

If business was booming I would have hired an attorney and took her to the cleaners.

But, this one client is my bread and butter right now and if I loose them I am closing down my business. There is NOTHING going on around here right now and businesses are closing on a daily basis.

Jims5543 · 11-01-2007, 06:26 AM

BTW - I spoke with the local building dept and they are on the lookout for the survey and are aware some data is missing requiring them to reject the survey.

I also called the local Sheriff and they have a Check Fraud Task Force, I left a message with the detective and I awaiting a call back.