Do carpool lanes really work?

[ianc]

What's your opinion?

To me they seem only to cause more serious congestion.

Every day when I drive home on the bumper- to-bumper 101, crawling 12 miles in first gear, all I can see is that virgin stretch of pavement right next to me that my tax dollars paid for, but I can't drive on.

The original intentions of the carpool lane are laudable: give people who are carpooling a break. This will encourage more people to carpool, and hence we will lower fuel consumption.

What that doesn't take into account is that:

1) Not everyone has reasonable public-transportion alternatives, or lives near enough to a coworker to feasibly carpool.

2) People entering the freeway exhibit the mad 'lemming-rush' to get into the carpool lane, thereby cutting off everybody else and bringing traffic to a crawl.

3) Any nebulous decrease in fuel consumption from carpooling is rendered meaningless by the 3 lanes of traffic next to it sitting bumper-to-bumper idling, while a complete lane of freeway bandwidth goes nearly unused.

Now I find that the highway dept. in Marin has 'done us all a favor' in 'meeting their goals' and increasing the length of the carpool lane near the central San Rafael exit. My commute is now longer than ever, with more wasted time and fuel.

Is anybody else convinced the whole carpool lane idea is just complete idiocy?

Humph...

ianc

[Flatbutt1]

they didn't work out my way. We are an ex-urban / rural area and not many people go to the same offices parks. So the HOV lane was always empty and the other lanes were JAMMED. Of course on my motorcycle I just flew in.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Yep. Get a 2-wheeler. You'll love 'em.

You do have to watch out for two things in particular on carpool lanes though:

1. Idiots that decide to "jump the double yellow line" whenever they damn well please (this can get very exciting when they whip into the lane in front of you from a dead stop or near-dead stop while you're humming along at 60 or 70)

2. Trash/debris - it tends to accumulate in car pool lanes because there's usually a k-rail barrier on the left side for the crap to pile up against. In a car, it's an inconvenience or irritation. On a bike it can easily kill you.

[Noah930]

Maybe they're just trying to encourage all of us to ride motorcycles. Relieves congestion, decreases gasoline usage, thins out the motoring herd in Darwinian fashion, and increases the pool of organ donors, all at the same time! Governmental bureaucratic brilliance.

[kang]

I heard they were thinking of changing these lanes so that carpoolers can enter and exit them any time they want, rather than just at selected open sections. This will eliminate the “People entering the freeway exhibit the mad 'lemming-rush' to get into the carpool lane, thereby cutting off everybody else and bringing traffic to a crawl” effect.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The best is the stretch of the 110 freeway between Carson & downtown L.A. (used to ride that corridor daily). The carpool lane is actually TWO lanes (each way, northbound has two diamond lanes at grade, southbound is elevated/stacked).

There's NO better feeling on a motorcycle than being to not only avoid the thousands of lemmings stuck in the traffic, not only being able to use the carpool lanes, but SPLIT LANES IN THE CAR POOL LANES!!!

I swear I must've passed 10,000 cars a day each way that way. It was so unfair. Always brought a big, giant, schit-eating grin to my face.

You do have to be careful though. Extremely careful.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by kang

I heard they were thinking of changing these lanes so that carpoolers can enter and exit them any time they want, rather than just at selected open sections. This will eliminate the “People entering the freeway exhibit the mad 'lemming-rush' to get into the carpool lane, thereby cutting off everybody else and bringing traffic to a crawl” effect.

Yea, they did this on the upgraded portion of the 22 freeway in North O.C. It's awesome.

Apparently changing/restriping all the existing car pool lanes to work this way is a big deal though and like everything else involving money, it will become a political football and probably a point of contention between Arnold & the legislature. In other words, it'll be years before you see any change.

[varmint]

motorcycles are the only things that make los angeles bearable.

i've heard of studies, that carpool lanes help actualy help carpoolers. but take away a lane, and cost the vast majority of motorists more time.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by varmint

motorcycles are the only things that make los angeles bearable.

i've heard of studies, that carpool lanes help actualy help carpoolers. but take away a lane, and cost the vast majority of motorists more time.

Agreed 100%.

Even WITH a motorcycle, I hate going up to L.A. I avoid it at all costs. If it weren't for having one, I'd probably have gone on a killing spree when I was unfortunate enough to actually live there.

It did make my former commute tolerable though.

[dbrisson]

NO especially since VA troopers use them as revenue generators.

They sit on 66 right by the rail stop and basically tie up traffic in 2 directions to get easy stops.

Rather than actually patrol the lanes, they sit on the lazy butts and start congestion so they can flag over offenders.

This is the stuff that creates the biggest disdain for traffic patrol officers. Patrol and stop and keep the traffic moving.

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Yep. Get a 2-wheeler. You'll love 'em.

You do have to watch out for two things in particular on carpool lanes though:

1. Idiots that decide to "jump the double yellow line" whenever they damn well please (this can get very exciting when they whip into the lane in front of you from a dead stop or near-dead stop while you're humming along at 60 or 70)

I used to have a hybrid. In VA it was legal to drive it in the HOV lane. I always watched my right in case some idiot decided to make a pass. I'm scared to death to ride my motorcycle in the HOV lane for that reason. We have another HOV lane with barriers on either side and a lot of shoulder. I'd ride there.

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by dbrisson

NO especially since VA troopers use them as revenue generators.

They sit on 66 right by the rail stop and basically tie up traffic in 2 directions to get easy stops.

Rather than actually patrol the lanes, they sit on the lazy butts and start congestion so they can flag over offenders.

This is the stuff that creates the biggest disdain for traffic patrol officers. Patrol and stop and keep the traffic moving.

Yup. Watch that traffic back up where the cops are.

It's dangerous as well.

[ianc]

I heard they were thinking of changing these lanes so that carpoolers can enter and exit them any time they want, rather than just at selected open sections. This will eliminate the “People entering the freeway exhibit the mad 'lemming-rush' to get into the carpool lane, thereby cutting off everybody else and bringing traffic to a crawl” effect.

We have that already here, but to my mind it just makes it worse. If people know they can't enter the carpool lane for another mile or two, they won't be rushing over there. If they can get on RIGHT NOW, then they'll kill each other (and you) to get there RIGHT NOW!

ianc

[jim72911t]

IIRC, the carpool lanes in the Bay Area require three people per car, whereas the carpool lanes in LA only require two people per car. Thus, the carpool lanes in the Bay are largely empty, while the carpool lanes in LA usually have a steady stream of traffic moving at a decent clip, depending on the time of day.

Seems to me that the three person per car rule in the Bay largely defeats the purpose of the carpool lane. It might be possible to find one person to share rides to work within a particular area, but two?

I'm glad I can still ride my bicycle to work.

[ckissick]

I heard on the radio a couple years ago that car pool lanes cause traffic jams. The guest mentioned a city, maybe Baltimore (?) where they ended the carpool lane program because of the traffic jams. On the first Monday without the carpool lane, the traffic moved at the limit, and continues to do so.

If you a have 4 lanes and one is effectively closed to 95% of the traffic, opening that one lane increases capacity by 33%. That's a significant increase.

[djmcmath]

In Norfolk, there's a 6 mile stretch of 2 lanes between the normal freeway lanes which is HOV. It's open to traffic towards the Naval Station in the morning, and away from the base in the afternoons. During rush hour (6-8am 4-6pm) it's HOV. Outside those times, it's just express.

Works great, in that:
1 - A lot of people carpool during rush hour, and I know people who bought motorcycles specifically for the HOV.
2 - It evens the load on the roads. If I'm not carpooling, I'll make an effort to either be in the HOV before it's rush hour, or I'll hold off until it's after rush hour. There are a lot of us doing that, so it ends up being a cumulative effect of a lot of traffic that's shifting to either side of the peak time.

Now, you could argue that you could open up those two lanes of traffic and increase bandwidth by 66%. I'm curious how that would work, and I don't really have a lot of data to work with.

(shrug) Just my $.02.

Dan

[Rick Lee]

I rode in on the bike with the wife on the back today. The way they do it around here is the far left lane on I-66 is HOV 2. Once you get inside the Beltway, all lanes are HOV 2. So it's pretty fast once there. Trouble is all the bailout traffic exiting before the road become HOV in all lanes. That ties up everyone. And the cops are just the worst. Nevermind the idiots on their cell phones, going slow in th left lane, reading the paper, putting their makeup on. No, the cops only want those HOV cheaters. What the hell difference does it make if you drive alone in a hybrid? Why do they get to use HOV? They still take up just as much space as any of my cars when I've driving solo. They cause just as much road wear. Today I rode by several cops at over 80mph, which is just about a felony in VA. Cops just ignore me. They want the HOV cheaters. It's worse in the evening when the cops stopping cheaters cause far more traffic than the HOV lanes are supposed to relieve.

[Rick Lee]

Oh, and I must add that there are a lot of gov't. types who are exempt from HOV rules. You see them driving solo in their Crown Vics and Suburbans all the time, even when the other lanes are empty, they're always in the left lane because they have that little red or blue light on the dash that makes them above the law. I hate them. Someday I will get to tell one of them off.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

A lot of the diamond lanes down here in socal used to be 3 occupants minimum, but they changed to 2 minimum a few years ago. Don't know what the story was with that - probably a reality check to offset underutilization.

One very smart guy I used to work with used to take his kid (about 2-3 years old) with him EVERYWHERE (including work activities) just so he could use the carpool lane. AND it meant he didn't have to pay for day care, so he was saving money AND time. Pretty smart if you've got a job that you can get away with it.

[Rick Lee]

They've had people here get busted with maniquins dressed up in their cars for the HOV lanes. Happens every once in a while. It would really be easy to just throw a child seat in the back with a doll wrapped up. Cops may flag you over, but would wave you by as soon as they glimpsed the child seat.