We're #1!! Wait, what was the category?

[nynor]

Originally Posted by Superman

You guys are a bunch of liberals, talking as if America's enforcement of morality is an inappropriate commercial venture.

liberal? i am probably the most conservative individual on this thread, including your esteemed self. in fact, my politics are so complicated, you'd have a hard time getting your head around them, considering that simplistic statement you just offered.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by the

Nothing wrong with that stat, to me.

That's less than 1%.

I think in any population, substantially more than 1% are just plain bad guy criminals who deserved to be in jail. I don't see how this is a "human rights" issue, unless someone is saying that the people we have in jail really aren't criminals or don't really belong to be there.

Brilliant. Iran & China just cant catch 'em all right? What geniuses like The probably don't know is that now, we have outsourced incarceration & it is a profit center for many. The more prisoners, the more cash. What a system!

[livi]

My grandpa emigrated to America. He used to say that in America everything was better, bigger and more abundant. Nothing new here then.

[tabs]

Just think of how many more criminals would be flooding our prison system if we didn't have guns to keep their numbers down.

[livi]

..or maybe less reason to lock people up if your society was not flooded with guns..

[sammyg2]

Hmmm, I see it a bit different. maybe the US has a higher percentage of low-life drug addicts than other countries. We have more wealth and more disposable income and our human trash uses that wealth to buy drugs.
I personally don't want to tell them it's OK to be a total social loser. I don't want to have to support them when they hit bottom or be a victim of a crime they commit to support their habit.
I don't want to tell them it's OK to be a drug addict. Sounds like I'm the only one tho.
IT IS NOT OK TO USE ILLEGAL DRUGS! They are illegal for a reason.

Line em all up and shoot em and we won't have to declare a war on drugs.

EDIT, one more thing, it's not a sickness or disease either. It's a charcter flaw and a lack of morals and self control. Maybe if we stop coddling them and telling them it's not their fault the number will go down?

[nynor]

maybe if we removed their government subsidies and government funded health care and allowed nature to take its course. allow them to be responsible for their own actions.

[legion]

I think this stems from the "zero tolerance" and "tough on crime" attitudes of our public officials. There's not a prosecutor in this country that ran on a record of setting people free...

[livi]

Unless the perp´s name is Paris H..

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I've seen numbers as high as 80% that are claimed to be in on non-violent drug related violations. Either possession, dealing, stealing to support a habit, or whatever. It is astonishing to think we could reduce our prison populations so dramatically by simply ending this silly "war on drugs".

Problem is, incarceration is big business here in America. As more and more states privatize their prison systems, more and more folks make money by maintaining a healthy customer base of inmates. That, and the "war on drugs" is a huge money-making enterprise. We spend billions every year fighting this "war". Combine these two influences, and we have a pretty damn unsavory money making machine at work.

Next to traffic laws, drug laws are the most often violated in this country. The "war" benefits no one other than the ones making money from it. When will the public wake up to the fact that we are spending billions every year to track down, arrest, prosecute, and incarcerate non-violent offenders who are filling up our prisons? These people need treatment, not incarceration. There is just not as much money in treatment, and it goes to different places. Those with their hands in the public's pocket are not going to give that up any time soon.

Absolutely spot on Jeff.

[DanL911sc]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Hmmm, I see it a bit different. maybe the US has a higher percentage of low-life drug addicts than other countries. We have more wealth and more disposable income and our human trash uses that wealth to buy drugs.
I personally don't want to tell them it's OK to be a total social loser. I don't want to have to support them when they hit bottom or be a victim of a crime they commit to support their habit.
I don't want to tell them it's OK to be a drug addict. Sounds like I'm the only one tho.
IT IS NOT OK TO USE ILLEGAL DRUGS! They are illegal for a reason.

Line em all up and shoot em and we won't have to declare a war on drugs.

EDIT, one more thing, it's not a sickness or disease either. It's a charcter flaw and a lack of morals and self control. Maybe if we stop coddling them and telling them it's not their fault the number will go down?

So are we going to shoot the alcoholics or just throw them in jail? Oh, right, for some reason alcohol is legal even though it fits right in to your description...

[911Rob]

That's over 1/4 of our entire Countries population!
That's alot of people

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by 911Rob

That's over 1/4 of our entire Countries population!

I knew they had to be coming from somewhere.

[rcm]

Originally Posted by legion

Those other countries execute people for many crimes that we give life sentences for...

I'd say we were behind then, not ahead.

[svandamme]

in Belgium , we have about 10.5 million inhabitants, open borders
and 9950 inmates
something like 99 per 100 000

but the inmates are like 70% foreigners, mostly east block europeans , albanians and romanians
without those, we'de be at 30 per 100 000

there is no death penalty
life in prison is commuted to 20 years max with parole possibility for most except for the most depraved criminals, like pedofiles and psychopaths....

yet most folks here, are not afraid to walk in the street, don't feel the need to be armed, don't shoot folks on their porch because they feel rattled by a strange occurance

oh well, it's not perfect, it's not like a certain country in Scandinavia, can't remember which one that has open co-ed prisons, off in weekends, crime rates so low they are hardly mentionable , recidivisme that's non existant... think it was norway , or denmark can't remember

[Rick Lee]

Since most violent crimes in the US are committed by recidivists, obviously we have far too few people incarcerated, or at least the wrong ones. Lots and lots of people are free now who should have never been released. There is no parole in Virginia, so we have at least some of that one right.

[Jeff Higgins]

"Three strikes" laws and minimum sentencing for gun related crime are having an impact in those jurisdictions that have them. If we could keep the violent recidivist criminals behind bars our crime rates would drop dramatically. Hell, even the non-violent, consistant repeat offenders.

Unfortunately, our legal system seems to emphasize quantity over quality, so the speak. Locking lots of people up for non-violent, often first time offenses gives the illusion that our authorities are "doing something". And it is very, very profitable. If our legal system better targeted the recidivists, we would see a sharp decline in both prison populations and crime rates. And profits for those on that end of this unholy business of incarceration for fun and profit.

Ask any cop; they will tell you who the problem children are on their beat. Most will tell you that if they could somehow take a very short list of people out of the communities they police, that crime in those communities would all but evaporate. They find that nearly impossible, however. The folks that have been through the system a few times know how to play it. They are neither impressed nor intimidated by it. They know they will likely never do meaningful time behind bars no matter how active their criminal lives. We need to change that. We need to re-vamp the system in such a way that it keeps those folks incarcerated, and no longer incarcerates the vast majority of the folks it currently holds.

[svandamme]

the prison system itself pretty much encourages criminal behavior
gang wars inside prisons, just to name one thing

haven't been inside a US prison, but what i read and see about it, doesn't lead me to believe that the worst part of being locked up, is the locked up part, instead it's the being locked up with animals, and simply doing your time is pretty difficult since you either pick sides and join forces with the animals, or the animals pick on you

please correct me if i'm wrong on this

[TheMentat]

Originally Posted by svandamme

the prison system itself pretty much encourages criminal behavior
gang wars inside prisons, just to name one thing

haven't been inside a US prison, but what i read and see about it, doesn't lead me to believe that the worst part of being locked up, is the locked up part, instead it's the being locked up with animals, and simply doing your time is pretty difficult since you either pick sides and join forces with the animals, or the animals pick on you

please correct me if i'm wrong on this

Actually, if you were to spend time in a prision anywhere in the world, the US probably offers the best "co-habitants" of any other system. The fact that so much of the population is made up of non-violent drug offenders means that the real animals are somewhat "diluted" compared to in other countries.

[Jeff Higgins]

I think you are pretty much spont on, Stijn. While I have never been inside a prison that is still in business (Alcatraz is pretty cool if you ever get to S.F.), I get the same impression. Seems like the "rights" prisoners enjoy within prison have somewhat dimished their real right of serving their time in a safe environment. Not comfortable, mind you, but safe. I think their safety has been compromised by many of the changes made in an effort to make their stay more comfortable.

All it takes is a few violent animals to threaten everyone else in the population. Folks that would otherwise serve out their time in peace, and maybe even have a chance of returning to society and contributing, wind up instead in a violent "grad school" of crime. The very "rights" won by prisoners recently leaves these people exposed to the worst elements, rather than offering them any protection from them.

The major part of that worst element is the growing gang presence in prison. That gang affiliations are allowed to flourish with the prison walls is a disgrace. They are allowed to do so through the concessions granted to prisoners in the name of their "rights". Many that enter prison as anyhting but "tough guys" certainly leave prison as one. Far from any sort of rehabilitation, prisons just seem to churn out tougher, even more unfeeling, hardened crooks.

They soon turn int the recidivent criminals a few of us mentioned earlier. No longer very much concerned with the prospect of prison, or impressed by any sort of authority, they become ever more emboldened in their criminal activities. These are the sort with whom we must "throw away the key" and keep them behind bars. And seperate from the others that might actually have a chance at picking up their lives when they get out.