Sheriff Joe Arpaio - hero or villain?

[Rick Lee]

I say hero. What say you?

[frogger]

hero

[legion]

Who?

[Mule]

In the running for worlds largest dildo, an ignorant, self righteous, self aggrandizing, misguided, ideologue.

Check out, "American Drug War" and you can see Joe at his finest, Boss Hogg meets Heinrich Himmler.

[Dan in Pasadena]

To me? Neither. He's just a guy doing a good job as far as I know. Seems like we've got to coronate people left and right these days for just doing their job.

Of the things I know about Arapaio, I've got no problem with it. (Mule, insert "PC" indictment here.)

Look, if a person has been convicted in a court of law with due process, then in what way is it "demeaning" or less than acceptable to feed that person a bologna and cheese sandwich for lunch like we all had as kids? How is it wrong for that prisoner to wear whatever prisoner uniforms the person charged with those decisions decides is appropriate?...so long as they all wear the same and certain individuals aren't singled out or the purpose of ridicule? If they are assigned physical labor i.e. road work, etc...what is wrong wit hthat as long as you provide drinking water in the heat and appropriate controls?

I've got no problem with Arapaio.

[Mule]

Actually, most of his incarceration practices don't bother me that much. Listen to the guy talk. That bothered me substantially. I also missed his point on having the only writing material available to the prisoners, a post card with Joe's picture on it and a little blurb about how the prisoners live in tents, while the hounds used to chase escapees live in air conditioned comfort. Is the point of that to smack the prisoner's mom in the mouth too?

[daepp]

Hero for standing up for victims against criminals.

[sammyg2]

Hero. We need to clone this guy. Yes he is way over the top, but we need more like him just to balance out the ACLU and other bleeding hearts who think that criminals should have it better in prison than on the streets.

[Mule]

Like I said, if Boss Hogg meets Heinrich Himmler is your cup of tea, giddyup, Buttercup!

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

Im willing to bet that this guy turns out to be a criminal of some sort himself, eventually...

[Moneyguy1]

Gee, Mule, one would think that your desire for "law and order" would want more Sheriff Joe's in the world. Green baloney sandwiches and pink clothing? Look up his recivitism figures.

Can't have t both ways, son......

[Hard-Deck]

Not a hero, but doing his job very well.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Jared Fenton

Im willing to bet that this guy turns out to be a criminal of some sort himself, eventually...

What's your evidence? Don't you think peole have been trying to dig up dirt on him for a while? He's had no trouble getting reelected since 1993.

[legion]

Now that I've figured out who this guy is....

I agree with how he handles prison. It should not be comfortable. That's the point. Motivate people to not want to come back. Rather than prison being an "environment", he turns it into an uncomfortable, temporary existence. Makes sense to me.

As for the person, he comes across as a shameless self-promoter. I may like what he does, but I don't like him particularly.

[MRM]

I hate to agree with Mule, but this former (and sometimes current) prosecutor agrees: villain. Like Javiart in Les Miserables, justice is supposed to be dispasionate and loyal only to the law. This guy takes pleasure in causing the bad guys unnecessary suffering. While many applaud that, that is not his job. His job is to leep people incarerated safely for the period of their time to serve; not to take pleasure in causing them pain. Like it's some big deal to be able to brag that you spend more money feeding your dogs than you spend feeding your prisoners. When God asks what he did to ease the suffering of the least of these, he's going to be short on answers.

Another factor to consider is that this is a jail, not a prison. Prison is for long-term inmates who have been sentenced to more than a year to serve and therefore have access to facilities like libraries, etc. Jail is for people who are waiting for trial and couldn't make bail, or who are being held for short term. So by definition of this being a county jail, the worst offenders aren't getting punished.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by legion

....I agree with how he handles prison. It should not be comfortable. That's the point. Motivate people to not want to come back. Rather than prison being an "environment", he turns it into an uncomfortable, temporary existence. Makes sense to me....

Hey, Legion...no fair agreeing with me!

Your point is better made than my point. I know nothing of Arapaio's personality. I'm not sure I've ever heard him speak or even seen a picture of him. If he's a self promoter or a jerk...well...I don't care so long as his policies result in a significant reduction in recidivism and he isn't beating, torturing or killing people.

My thought is, if you did the crime, you do your time - the way the jail is set up whehter you like it or not. Don't like it? Don't come back!

You don't have to be cruel or inhuman to make someone NOT want to ever come back and apparently Arapaio has proven that to a degree.

[Hard-Deck]

He's not a villan. If he were, he'd be under charges himself.

Inhumane treatment...no way, Soldiers in Iraq live worse than his prisoners do.

"If you can't do the time, don't do the time" is a good quote from his jail.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by MRM

... This guy takes pleasure in causing the bad guys unnecessary suffering. While many applaud that, that is not his job. His job is to leep people incarerated safely for the period of their time to serve; not to take pleasure in causing them pain. Like it's some big deal to be able to brag that you spend more money feeding your dogs than you spend feeding your prisoners. When God asks what he did to ease the suffering of the least of these, he's going to be short on answers.

MRM, I am honestly sking a question: What makes you say (write) he's causing bad guys unnecessary suffering? I am asking where that accusation comes from? If true, I would be opposed. Their sentence is their sentence and if THAt makes them suffer, well then they shouldn't have done the crime. Tell me you're not saying that wearing things in pink or eating plain, common food is "suffering", are you?

If that IS what you're saying, then let this bleeding heart, pinko, liberal, scum be the first to accuse you of being...well....worse than me!

If Arapaio's worst offense is saying stupid things like the dogs eat better than the criminals? Well, I agree its insensitive and doesn't display much in the way of self-preservation skills, but as long as he isn't feeding them actual dog food and the food is not spoiled, etc, then nothing REAL in the way of hardship is happening, right? As for the insensitivity? Well, I guess these thieves, vandals, gangbangers, drunks, etc will somehow just have to weep themsleves to sleep. And my honest hope is they DO, so they won't EVER do something that makes them come back to his jail again.

[Rick Lee]

I couldn't care less if Arpaio takes pleasure in making his prisoners not enjoy their stay. Whether or not he takes pleasure in it has nothing to do with whether that treatment is right or wrong. I'll go out on a limb and say the vast majority of Americans would agree with him, perhaps even more so nowadays, because we're so fed up with prisoners filing frivolous lawsuits, gaining 100 lbs. in the joint or coming out cut like a pro boxer because of the gym. I want prisoners to hate their stay in the joint, be uncomfortable, whine and moan about it and not want to come back. Seems to me Arpaio is accomplishing that well.

[MRM]

Dan, I appreciate that as a serious question. I'm basing my opinion based on what I've read about him. He braggs about feeding prisoners just inside the requirements for food, even though he has enough money to give them decent food. His brag is that he spends more on dog food because it costs more to buy dog food that it does to buy the food he gives humans. The tent city thing isn't because it's cheaper or easier to police, it's because it's more miserable, and it's a more or less short term facility to he can get away with it. It's stuff like that. I'm sure if I looked into him more I could give more and better examples.

Having put people in jail, I think it is important not to take pleasure in it. I certainly took pleasure in a job well done when a bad guy got locked up andI celebrated with victims when their abuses went to jail. usually my only regret was that I couldn't put them away longer. I'm considered a bit of a Nazi by the public defenders up here. But I think that's a lot different than taking pleasure in their suffering. I subscribe to Nietze's theiry that when you look at the beast it looks back at you. it's a short ans slippery slope between taking pleasure in causing unnecessary pain on prisoners and being like the criminals themselves.

Remember, it is not the job of the police or sheriff to punish people. The state legislature passes the punishement, the court imposes the sentence. The local sheriff or state prison is responsible for keeping the prisoner incarcerated. I don't know of any authority for a sheriff to take it upon himself to make things harder on the prisoners just to increase the punishment.

I'm sure most of the people in the country approve. The tyrany of the majority is one reason we have a Constitution. If the conditions in that jail were replicated in a prison, it would be unconstitutionally cruel and unusual punishment. As a matter of penal theory, the best evidence is that harsher treatment correlates to higher levels of recidivism. So I'm not sure there's any data to suggest the sheriff is accomplishing anything other than causing some unnecessary pain on a bunch of prisoners.

Like I said, lots of people don't see the problem with that.