Va. Tells NYC to Stop Gun Stings - Straw Purchases

[kach22i]

Follow up to the CBC Fifth Estate TV program tread;

Va. Tells NYC to Stop Gun Stings
Attorney General Warns of Charges
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/09/AR2007050902573.html

By Tim Craig
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 10, 2007; Page A01

RICHMOND, May 9 -- Attorney General Robert F. McDonnell is warning New York to stop, by the summer, sending private agents into Virginia to look for illegal gun sales, saying that the agents could face legal action........................

Convinced that illegal gun sales in Virginia contribute to violent crime in his city, Bloomberg has been arming private investigators with hidden cameras and sending them into Virginia gun stores to try to make illegal buys.

The process involves "straw purchases," in which one person legally fills out a form and buys a gun for someone else.......................

"Once the male investigator selected a gun and indicated a desire to purchase it, the female investigator, who had not been part of the discussion, approached the counter to make the purchase," the suit alleges. The woman filled out the required paperwork, but then the man came and paid cash for the gun, the suit says.

Straw Purchases are illegal, no defending it please.

[Joeaksa]

Some of these mayors and govenors do not believe that they have to follow the laws. Look at Daily in Chicago, Bloomberg in NYC and the govenor in NJ.

All three break the laws whenever they feel like it and for some reason seem to wiggle out of it every time.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

All three break the laws whenever they feel like it and for some reason seem to wiggle out of it every time.

Don't tell anyone, but everytime I get in my Porsche I decide which laws I'm going to follow or not. The posted speed limit does not seem to apply to my vehicle most days.

I've paid my Porsche tax, even when others around me were the ones speeding and not me.

[The Gaijin]

What is illegal about this:

"Once the male investigator selected a gun and indicated a desire to purchase it, the female investigator, who had not been part of the discussion, approached the counter to make the purchase," the suit alleges. The woman filled out the required paperwork, but then the man came and paid cash for the gun, the suit says."

??

They apparently didn't arrest anyone, were only doing an investigation and only videotaped what they were doing...

Looks like Southern pols running against the Yankees.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

What is illegal about this:

If the intent is to "gift" the gun, it still must be registered to the owner/user.

If the intent is to collect a fee to purchase the gun and then give it to an illegal arms dealer who will turn around and sell it on the street, that to is illegal.

If you purchased a gun legally you should know this already, if you are a gun dealer you would know this without a doubt.

[The Gaijin]

So what the investigators did was legal or not?

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by kach22i

If the intent is to "gift" the gun, it still must be registered to the owner/user.

If the intent is to collect a fee to purchase the gun and then give it to an illegal arms dealer who will turn around and sell it on the street, that to is illegal.

If you purchased a gun legally you should know this already, if you are a gun dealer you would know this without a doubt.

Get your facts straight. There is NO gun registration of any kind in VA, but there is in NYC. When I buy a handgun in VA, and I've done this many, many times, the only record of the sale stays with the dealer. The state police and FBI hear about me during the NICS check, but they do not know if I'm buying a shotgun, a deer rifle or a handgun. They know nothing of the make, model or serial number. They only confirm that I have no disqualifying factors on my record tied to my driver's license. It IS a federal crime, however, for residents of NY State to attempt to purchase a handgun from an FFL in VA and it IS a federal crime for the FFL to allow that sale. So, if those "investigators" have bogus VA driver's licenses, then they should be rotting in prison now on several federal and state charges. If they had bonafide NY driver's licenses, I highly doubt an VA FFL would sell to them and if he did, they should all be in jail.

[The Gaijin]

Most likely they had real VA licences or other ID, and were just hired as investigators. So nobody goes to jail.

I think the whole purpose of the "sting" as it was is to show how "straw purchases" are made use one person's ID and the other person's cash..

What I want to know how can VA criminalize the videotaping of such a transaction?

[Jeff Higgins]

New York has grossly exceeded its authority; as a matter of fact, it has none in regards to interstate commerce. The authority to regulate such is very clearly under Federal jurisdiction. On top of that, they have violated the sovereignity of another state. Everything about what they are doing is illegal. I would love to see the private investigators they hired get busted under Virginia and Federal law and spend a few years behind bars. At least New York was bright enough not to send their undercover police or something, but that does alude to a bit of a legal "CYA" approach. They clearly knew what they were doing was illegal.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Get your facts straight. There is NO gun registration of any kind in VA, but there is in NYC.

There is registration in Michigan, which is where my experience is.

So it's okay for cops and little kids to keep dying in NYC from guns brought in from other states?

The Feds seem to be looking the otherway...................for God knows what reasons.

Maybe it's all the lawsuits and court time financed by the NRA which is providing the roadblock.

FYI:
http://www.dontlie.org/

The Don't Lie for the Other Guy program was developed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) in coordination with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in ATF's efforts to combat the criminal misuse of firearms.

ATF praises "Don't Lie for the Other Guy" as an important tool for ATF to pursue its mission of preventing terrorism, reducing violent crime, and protecting the public through Project Safe Neighborhoods and other initiatives.

[Rick Lee]

Bloomberg just wants to sue some FFL's out of business. He personally donates big $$ to Brady Center and one of their offshoots. I have no problem with bad FFL's being exposed and they should be prosecuted and run out of town. But they can only do so much. I think there's probably a legal gray area when it comes to married couples paying for guns, when one does the paperwork and the other breaks out the credit card. Legally, the money belongs to both of them, but it is possible for one to be legal to buy a gun and for the other to not be. Actually, that's my current status. My wife does not yet have a green card, so she can't legally buy a gun. But why can't she use her credit card if I forget mine and I fill out the paperwork for the gun? Wasn't the Bloomberg sting a husband and wife team? BTW, since there is no gun registration in VA, it's pretty easy to "gift" a handgun to someone without much of a trace. Of course, the law says you cannot gift a gun to someone who is ineligible to own that gun. But I don't know how they could ever enforce it, other than coming after the original purchaser if the gun turns up used in a crime.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by kach22i

There is registration in Michigan, which is where my experience is.

So it's okay for cops and little kids to keep dying in NYC from guns brought in from other states?

The Feds seem to be looking the otherway...................for God knows what reasons.

Maybe it's all the lawsuits and court time financed by the NRA which is providing the roadblock.

Uh, who in the world thinks it's ok for cops and kids to die by guns, regardless of where they're bought?

Which lawsuits do you know of that were brought or financed by the NRA? I'm only aware of their support for the federal preemption law on lawsuits against gun manufacturers by cities who just want to bankrupt gun makers. They can't win in the legislature or the courts, so they just want to run them into the ground with legal defense costs. I see nothing wrong with making such harassment suits illegal and I'm happy to contribute to the NRA to help in this effort.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Which lawsuits do you know of that were brought or financed by the NRA? .

The NRA has been happy to defend the gun shops targeted for closure, and help provide defense resources.....................I saw it on TV.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by kach22i

The NRA has been happy to defend the gun shops targeted for closure, and help provide defense resources.....................I saw it on TV.

Good! I'm even happier now to give them money. If the BATF can't think of a reason (believe me, they can if they really want to) to yank a shop's FFL, then that shop has obviously not violated the law. Why should they be put out of business by defending themselves against bogus lawsuits? Do you support suing car dealerships that sell to people who later commit crimes with those cars? AFAIK, you don't even need a clean driving or criminal record to buy a car. And you have an exponentially larger chance of being injured or killed by a bad driver than a gun-wielding thug.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

defending themselves against bogus lawsuits?

The shop called it missing paperwork, not bogus lawsuit.

[tabs]

KACHI..On this one you are out to lunch..a long lunch..

I can't think of an FFL who would do anything to jeapordize his license. These guys are so paranoid of the BATF that they dot every i and cross every t three times to make sure they are in complicance. I personally will not do anything illegal in a firearms transaction.

There used to be over a 1/4 M FFL dealers in the USA 10 or so years ago, that number is down to 85K. Most of the kitchen table guys bailed because it became too much of a hassle to warrant keeping the license. Most of the Kitchen Table Dealers I have known over the years are very substantial people. Less flakey than the majority of Liberals on this Board to tell the truth.

Bloomberg should be popped for his so called sting activities in VA.

[Rick Lee]

Tabs, last I heard BATF was deferring to local zoning boards for FFL apps. and renewals. That's their way of thinning the herd while shifting the blame. A lot of counties don't want people selling guns out of their houses, so you need a commerical property, better yet a storefront. A girl I date a while back had her FFL and "rented" space from a Korean dry cleaners just to have a storefront for her address. Worked too! The FFL I usually go to for Internet purchases was very worried about his renewal. He's as clean as the day is long, but Fairfax Co. doesn't like home-based gun dealers. He got his renewal and everytime I go there for a transfer, he has people lined up in his driveway. $27 per is not a bad side living, if you have the right safe and insurance.

[tabs]

Ironically San Bernardino County, CA allows Home Dealers...various cities like Fontana in the county don't allow them. Clark County, NV does not allow Home Dealers, yet you can own Machine Guns and Suppressors here. Go figure.

Most Home Dealers were doing it for there own personal use, and maybe some friends.

[on2wheels52]

"but they do not know if I'm buying a shotgun, a deer rifle or a handgun"

That's not exactly correct if your state is in the same NICS family as mine. The only question asked re the firearm itself is hand gun or long gun (and redemption or sale, a toehold for us pawnbrokers).
I frequently get people in who are so proud of their 'unregistered' guns and vow never to purchase one. I don't think they understand what 'registration' means in most states.
I (meaning the FFL holder) am the keeper of record of these 'registered' firearms. In over twenty years I have a stack of 4473's as high as the ceiling. Should the need require I have to be able to produce said form but none of the thousands of transactions I've done have been entered into any sort of national (or state) registry. I have dozens of dusty boxes of the things stored, I'd like to meet the federal employee who gets the job of transcribing these scrawled documents into a working database.
Jim

[Rick Lee]

Jim, honestly, I can't remember all the info my FFL gives on the phone for my NICS check, but I'm pretty sure my birthdate is on there and since I'm well over 21, it's a moot point as to whether I'm buying a handgun or long gun. BTW, we have gun rationing here in VA. You can only buy one gun a month, but CCW holders are exempt from this law. Sound like something that would never affect you? Well, I bought two or three one month through the same FFL. He just reads off my driver's license # and tells the NICS folks I have a CCW for my second form of id. That's it. If you're eligible for a CCW, you're eligible for just about anything.