Running 220V out to the garage? - Page 3

legion · 12-17-2007, 06:15 AM

notfarnow · 12-17-2007, 06:43 AM

fun stuff. You going to get a tubing bender too?

legion · 12-17-2007, 06:47 AM

I think I'm going to start out with a weld-in kit.

I think a tubing bender is beyond what I have working room for. And then there's the whole issue of securing it (I don't think the slab in my garage is up to the task.)

That kind of equipment will be at the next house...

futuresoptions · 12-17-2007, 09:23 AM

Hey Chris,

It looks to me that you already have 220v at your panel. Check across the two large black wires with a multimeter set for alternating current on the volts scale and you should have between 210v-240v. The only question that I would have if I were there would be what size breaker you had feeding that panel. If it was lower than the 80amp breaker you were installing I would advise against it. If this is the case then look at the name plate on the panel and see what amperage it is rated for and you may be able to increase the breaker size feeding this panel considering that the supply wiring installed is rated high enough for the upgrade. Another option is to look at your main disconnect outside under your meter. You may have room for a breaker that could feed a seperate panel in your garage for your higher amp equipment. This would be ideal because it would be seperate from the panel in your house.

Tim Hancock · 12-17-2007, 09:35 AM

FWIW, I run my Miller Econotig off of a 60 amp circuit breaker I installed in a sub-box next to my main box in my shop (the main box was full...no room to install the 60 amp double breaker). I am glad I added this second box....it gave me a place to recently add a 15 amp double braeker for my milling machine.

GO DAWG GO · GO DAWG GO's Garage

Chris,

First...

Pay no attention to these journalists on this site. Only a couple of these guys have any clue. This is a site for folks to save the world from themselves

Next... (If this sub panel was installed in compliance to city codes, which in my opinion has).

According to the first picture, you have a 220V sub panel that is single phase. Meaning 60 hz. This is what you want. Forget what you have been told.
Your service is a minimum of 50 amps and the breaker in you panel that feeds this sub panel. This is fine. The wiring is adequate for a 50 amp load. Minimum should be 8 AWG. You have that or better. Note the diameter of the 2 big black wires terminating on the 110V bus on each side of the breakers and the big white to the ground.

You need to go to Home Depot and get a 50AMP 220v breaker for that sub panel.
Install it in one of the empty slot in the sub panel and and install a housing below your sub panel for the 220v receptacle ( the place to plug in your welder) The breaker has 2 contacts each that are 110v ea., together there combined voltage is 220V. The main buss with the white wire is the ground or common.

The 80 amp input specified on the back of the welder is rated for the maximum current load from the welder to the power source. A welder is just a big stepdown transformer and will pull the load require to perform the potential current for the required weld and penetration.

Meaning.. unless you are planning on welding the bow back on the USS Arizona you will never need this type of current/amp load.

I have a big production welder and it has never has blown my 50 amp breaker.

If you ever pulled more current that 50 amps it would simply pop the breaker and not hurt a thing.

Save yourself some money.....

If your going to make roll bars for Porsche's, your current loads will be fine.

Tim Hancock · 12-17-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GO DAWG GO

Chris,

First...

Pay no attention to these journalists on this site. Only a couple of these guys have any clue. This is a site for folks to save the world from themselves

Next... (If this sub panel was installed in compliance to city codes, which in my opinion has).

According to the first picture, you have a 220V sub panel that is single phase. Meaning 60 hz. This is what you want. Forget what you have been told.
Your service is a minimum of 50 amps and the breaker in you panel that feeds this sub panel. This is fine. The wiring is adequate for a 50 amp load. Minimum should be 8 AWG. You have that or better. Note the diameter of the 2 big black wires terminating on the 110V bus on each side of the breakers and the big white to the ground.

You need to go to Home Depot and get a 50AMP 220v breaker for that sub panel.
Install it in one of the empty slot in the sub panel and and install a housing below your sub panel for the 220v receptacle ( the place to plug in your welder) The breaker has 2 contacts each that are 110v ea., together there combined voltage is 220V. The main buss with the white wire is the ground or common.

The 80 amp input specified on the back of the welder is rated for the maximum current load from the welder to the power source. A welder is just a big stepdown transformer and will pull the load require to perform the potential current for the required weld and penetration.

Meaning.. unless you are planning on welding the bow back on the USS Arizona you will never need this type of current/amp load.

I have a big production welder and it has never has blown my 50 amp breaker.

If you ever pulled more current that 50 amps it would simply pop the breaker and not hurt a thing.

Save yourself some money.....

If your going to make roll bars for Porsche's, your current loads will be fine.

+1 to what he said.

GO DAWG GO · GO DAWG GO's Garage

Thanks Tim

,

I like aviation guys..I'm actually one too. I want to help Chris and save him some money.

Bob

scottbombedout · 12-17-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

That's not how it works - even in Europe. Thirty amps is not exactly serious, but 80 is a bit more so.

BTW-your sub panel is 220 and wired for 60 amps. Unlike WB's they used 2 wire (ground wire not counted) service entrance cable on yours so the neutral is not insulated. Can't say I would do it that way as you have no ground technically. Also, the ground and neutral "shall not" be bonded at a sub panel so either way that's a code violation. As suggested, you could use aluminum SE cable. You would need to size up, but it's cheap compared to copper and much easier to install (if code for your area allows this). It would be 2/2/2 AL SE cable.

Bob,
I'm an electrician in the UK, this thread has made me smile. Couple of questions, is it not normal to have a main switch on your panels and I'm amazed that the neutral and earth are together, is that common?

Scott

idontknow · 12-17-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottbombedout

Bob,
I'm an electrician in the UK, this thread has made me smile. Couple of questions, is it not normal to have a main switch on your panels and I'm amazed that the neutral and earth are together, is that common?

Scott

Sub panels don't require a main switch as their protected by the main panel breaker.

Neutrals and grounds are allowed to be bonded "at the first means of disconnect" meaning the main panel. Sub panels are supposed to have seperate lugs but it's cheaper and easier just to land em on one bar.

GO DAWG GO · GO DAWG GO's Garage

Scott,

In the US we use single phase 60cycle (HZ) 110v service to our homes. The service panel is isolated by two buss bars that are supplied by two sources of 110v. The buss bars are arranged in the panel parallel in proximity so either can be bridged by a single breaker or a dual configuration that contacts each 110v supply, creating 220V. The ground circuit in the box is a common buss bar that is copper staked in the ground (earth) directly below the box and the bar is also connected to the service ground on the power pole (systemic ground).

I am not a professional electrician. I have been trained and have worked years ago doing these mods and installations. My background is aerospace engineering but have always had my fingers in many different mechanical and electrical disciplines.

How much different is your service in the UK...Do you run 220V to your bathrooms? or any other wet place were that could be an issue...

Bob

scottbombedout · 12-17-2007, 01:13 PM

I always find it fascinating the difference in electric codes between countries.
Over here our domestic supply is 230V. You can have that in your bathroom but anything that can be touched must be 12V. A lot of our supplys are a combined neutral and earth, but once inside the building they are normally kept seperate.
It is so rare to see them together that I have never seen it in 25 years. Oh and all distribution boards must have a means of isolation with a main switch.
Always had a dream of emigrating to the US but the wiring regs look too complicated

SLO-BOB · 12-17-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottbombedout

Bob,
I'm an electrician in the UK, this thread has made me smile. Couple of questions, is it not normal to have a main switch on your panels and I'm amazed that the neutral and earth are together, is that common?

Scott

Hi Scott,

It is funny stuff.

Nice to hear from a brother from across the pond. Like you, I'm actually a card carrying electrician. OKay, I've gotten a bit fat and lazy and became a contractor

, but by trade, I'm an Electrician. A "Master" at that. Woo-hoo!

We don't need a main breaker or disconnect at sub panels. Do you? There are some codes regarding disconnecting means for garages, but I'm not really up on residential stuff anymore. I personally would have one just for peace of mind. The ground and neutral tied together in the pic are definitely a violation as is the lack of a ground. A good "right vs wrong would be Legion's pic vs. Widebody's, who's ground is present and seperate from the neutral buss.