Rolex - Part III

[Dixie]

That said, if I dropped a lot of coin on a watch, would expect it to be SUPER ACCURATE...

Exactly why I no longer wear a watch. The time on my cell phone is super accurate, sets itself for day-of-month, daylight savings, and typically it's right at hand. Plus it does more than just tell the time.

[Moneyguy1]

Rob....I agree. I have a drawer full of watches but use the Cell for telling time.

[RPKESQ]

To really learn about fine watches takes effort; Relying on the general market is relying on the uneducated masses whom are the primary targets for Madison Avenue type of hype. Mostly flash, little substance.

Among horologists quality is dependant on the details (finish, innovation, hand work, unique features or combination of features) , not on advertising hype.

Rolex has achieved some remarkable technical accolades, but in the last 25 years Rolex has concentrated on raising their brand position more than anything else. Rolex has achieved two notable things.
1) They have perfected the ability to mass produce a reasonable high end product, mostly by using the largest amount of automation in the construction (read as machine made, not hand crafted). The reality of this is that there is little in the way of hand craftsmanship in a Rolex. Their production rates are in the hundreds of thousands per year (not, as been stated, that it takes years to produce a Rolex) and their number of certified watchmakers employed is the lowest among all major brands. Look up their production numbers compared to other high quality watch makers.
2) They have mastered the song and dance of propaganda in their advertising and promotion efforts. They were not the sole developer of the “waterproof” watch, they were not the first or sole developer of the self-winding watch, etc. This hyper inflation of their watch making and design abilities have made them the poster boy for mass market bling consumers and THE largest producers of mediocre, overhyped watches within the watch making and watch connoisseurs communities.

This is not just my opinion; this is the opinion of educated consumers/ connoisseurs and the watch making community. Please do the research. Note: reading the Rolex discussion forums and Rolex “true believers” websites is hardly doing quality research.
Let’s look at some of the most remarkable mechanical watch making achievements in the last 35 years.

First lubrication-free watch (an achievement that ranks up there with the first transatlantic solo flight).

First watch that passed extensive tests for space flight, and not just in the US.

First use of sapphire crystal.

First 1000 meter “waterproof” watch.

Most corrosion resistant metal case material.

Highest level of complication in a watch.

Minute repeaters.

Tourbillons in all configurations (wait till you see a gyro-tourbillon!)

Innovative materials in movements and case.

First belt driven watch.

First mechanical chronograph with a memory.

And so many, many more.

Look these up, Rolex has not achieved any of them.

One of the most intriguing design features in recent years has been exposing the movement to view so that the actual gear trains, balance wheel, escapements are in open view. Interior finish is at least as important as it is in an engine, so why give a brand like Rolex a pass on this. Why doesn’t Rolex show off it’s interiors?

So, if you are speaking about a pre 1975 or so Rolex, they are/were fine watches (although still not the very best) and very collectable. After the mid seventies Rolex changed their entire focus as far as watch making was concerned. Instead of making the best watches, they would use propaganda to make the uninformed consumer believe they were making the best watches. Again this is not just my opinion; it is the common opinion within the watch making community. Do the research, don’t just swallow the common “knowledge” of the uninformed.

Another thing, the COSC certification is not at all what most people think it is. The unfinished movements which are uncased are tested. Most medium quality mechanical movements can pass this series of tests (for example the ETA 2992A2, which I buy for $98). In fact, most of the highest quality makers never submit their movements to this test, because it is not strict enough for them.

Also many brands have different levels of quality within a brand. TAG Heuer, Victorinox, etc. sell low end quartz watches every where, but their upper end watches are all mechanical and very good buys, but hard to find in the US.

[cab83_750]

RPKESQ,

That is some information. Thanks. In your opinion, for the same price as a Rolex, which brand/maker would be of equal quality?

You remind me of what I was told once ago ago diamonds. These rocks are so abundant and normal, that they only appear to be expensive because DeBeers control the 'output' to the masses.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

Rob....I agree. I have a drawer full of watches but use the Cell for telling time.

I haven't "advanced" enough to have a cell...(edit) But, I hope I Never, never ever, "advance" enough to wear a timepiece for status reasons...

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by cab83_750

RPKESQ,

That is some information. Thanks. In your opinion, for the same price as a Rolex, which brand/maker would be of equal quality?

Not RPKESQ- but you might intertested to investgate offerings from IWC, Jaeger LeCoultre and Zenith.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

I haven't "advanced" enough to have a cell...(edit) But, I hope I Never, never ever, "advance" enough to wear a timepiece for status reasons...

Ahhh, but it would show that you've "made it"! I posted on the other thread that I desired to be "enlightened", but have yet to see the light. Different strokes... I just don't like things on my wrist, always have my cell phone with me, and if I were to seriously consider carrying a watch, it'd probably be my geat-grandfather's 100+ year old pocket watch (which probably has no real value nor "status" to anyone but me). I'm just a simple man...much like grandpa

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by alf

I wear it diving, swimming, showering, wrenching...just about everything, yes even that.

The older watches needed more frequent service because of the lube that was used, newer ones with morden lube do not dry out as fast.

I'm told you get more of "that" if you wear a Rolex.

What's older vs newer, as in what year?

[cab83_750]

Originally Posted by KC911

Ahhh, but it would show that you've "made it"! I posted on the other thread that I desired to be "enlightened", but have yet to see the light. Different strokes... I just don't like things on my wrist, always have my cell phone with me, and if I were to seriously consider carrying a watch, it'd probably be my geat-grandfather's 100+ year old pocket watch (which probably has no real value nor "status" to anyone but me). I'm just a simple man...much like grandpa

Ahhh! So what does that make me? Perhaps, as we are alike, what does that make you? I used to collect old pocket watches. I ended up just keeping 4. They are art of work. Be aware that most people also consider these to be status symbol.

I used to have them everyday as I hated something on my wrist. I just got tired of adjusting them everyday as they were not accurate enough.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by cab83_750

RPKESQ,

That is some information. Thanks. In your opinion, for the same price as a Rolex, which brand/maker would be of equal quality?

You remind me of what I was told once ago ago diamonds. These rocks are so abundant and normal, that they only appear to be expensive because DeBeers control the 'output' to the masses.

Since prices vary so very much (new-used) it is hard to give exact match-ups. But here is a list:

8K-25K (new & used) Jaeger-leCoultre, Breguet, Patek Philippe, A. Lange & Sohne, Vacheron Constantin, IWC, Corum, Glashutte Oringinal, Audemars Piguet, Zenith, Blancpain, Fortis, Girard-Perregaux, Chronoswiss, Ulysse Nardin, Maurice Lacroix, Mont Blanc, Universal Geneve, DeWitt

4K- 8K (new & used) Omega, Baume & Mercier, Ebel, Frederique Constant, Breitling, TAG Heuer, Rado, Raymond Weil

1K-4K (new & used) Longines, Victorinox, Seiko, Nomos, Eterna, Bulova, Hamilton, Zeno, Mido, Doxa, Vulcain, Certina

All of these brands have some models (some more than others) that exhibit superb crafsmanship, inovation and value. Many of these offer quartz models. I am not referring to those models. I am speaking of only the mechanical models. I just picked up a Omega Co-Axial Broad Arrow Speedmaster, new for $3500. Great value for the money.

But one of the best deals out there right now is the Master Collection from Longines. I just purchased a Master Collection Moonphase for $2000. This is a mechanical triple date (month, day, date) chronograph moonphase with a 24 hour display. It has a beautiful dial and a display back showing the extrodinary finish that Longines is offering. It has Geneva striped bridgework, perlage applied to the gold signed rotor as well as anglage on all visible parts. In short extrodinary finish for a low priced high quality multi-complication swiss hand finished watch.

You must look at the various brands and choose your own style and pricepoint. I wear a Omega SeaMaster Professional as my everyday bang around watch. I have several higher end watches, some vintage, some not, that I wear for various casual to black tie occasions. Your personality is important to pick the look you enjoy, but your watch education should be your guide to watch quality and value.

By the way, a hobby of mine is to purchase old watches and repair them. I also build new watches from new parts. I have machined up cases for some of my old repaired movements. Currently I am working on an old Longines pocket watch that I am turning into a "skeletion" version, with engraved bridges.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by cab83_750

...I used to collect old pocket watches. I ended up just keeping 4. They are art of work. Be aware that most people also consider these to be status symbol...

The one that belonged to my great-grandfather still has the brown shoestring attached to it that he used to secure it to his bib-overalls strap. I don't think grandpa used it as a status symbol back then...he just didn't have a cell phone . It's been 40 years or more, but I can still recall him wearing it. We all have our passions...porsches, guns, spoons, watches, whatever, but watches have just never "done it" for me.