I wish I could move to Austrailia sometimes...

[tabs]

Why in the world would you want to move Down Under, all the blood would rush to yer haid and U couldn't get it up because of that.

[cairns]

Cut me a break. I've visited OZ for over fifteen years- usually for extended trips. I have a number of close friends there. I've been all over that country and love it as much as my own.

If anyone wears sunscreen it's to prevent sunburn- same as anywhere else in the world. Australians are anything but quivering chicken littles waiting for Al Gore to give them permission to go outside with their sunscreen and parasols. I know they have a few of those (by and large in Sydney) but your statement is ridiculous.

If YOU knew anything about Australia you'd know this- and you'd also know that much of Southern Australia (esp. Tasmania) can be sunless, wet and cold during Winter (and yes they even have ski resorts but anyone with money just goes to NZ).

So get off it.

[hytem]

They wear sunscreen in Perth. And I do know what I am talking about.

[nynor]

i agree with the sentiment that people are free to leave if they don't like it, they are free to assimilate if they do. i find it VERY annoying that we are constantly forced to bow down to other cultures in our own borders. this isn't racist, as i am talking about all races here... there are examples from every race, not just mexican or muslim.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Can you give an example of any government that has ever allowed the intermingling of religion and politics with good results?

It is ALWAYS bad. There are very few absolutes in this world and I typically try to avoid using words like "always", "never", etc. but in this case it applies. Religion plus political influence equals tyrrany. ALWAYS.

America was founded by people seeking religious freedom...freedom to worship unfettered by a state sponsored religion. Politics and religion are inextricably linked in America...the separation of church and state was meant to allow freedom of worship, not prevent it. The only tyranny you face is the tyranny of intellectual oppression by those who fear religion.

BTW, I am not religious at all and do not attend church, but for the love of god please read up on topics.

Now, back to the Aussie stuff

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Absolutely, 100% incorrect.

I suggest you read the writings of the founding fathers to better understand this.

No examples of a religious/secular government that hasn't resulted in tyrrany, eh? (Yes, I noticed how you tried to duck my earlier question).

How telling.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Absolutely, 100% incorrect.

I suggest you read the writings of the founding fathers to better understand this.

No examples of a religious/secular government that hasn't resulted in tyrrany, eh? (Yes, I noticed how you tried to duck my earlier question).

How telling.

First Amendment and Article IV, the Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause for starters.

Some of the early colonies, although many of them were founded as a result of religious persecution, were not tolerant of dissident forms of worship. For example, Roger Williams found it necessary to found a new colony in Rhode Island to escape persecution in the theocratically dominated colony of Massachusetts.

It was not until the 18th century that Enlightenment concepts of freedom of individual worship gained ground both in Europe and America.

The modern legal concept of religious freedom as the union of freedom of belief and freedom of worship with the absence of any state-sponsored religion, originated in the United States of America.

This issue was addressed by Thomas Paine in his pamphlet, Common Sense (1776):

"As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of all government, to protect all conscientious professors thereof, and I know of no other business which government hath to do therewith…

The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was written in 1779 by Thomas Jefferson. It proclaimed:

"[N]o man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."

And as to your question: our Republic.

I love Aussie Rules Football.

[tabs]

U can view Atheism as a form of religion.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by cairns

Cut me a break. I've visited OZ for over fifteen years- usually for extended trips. I have a number of close friends there. I've been all over that country and love it as much as my own.

If anyone wears sunscreen it's to prevent sunburn- same as anywhere else in the world. Australians are anything but quivering chicken littles waiting for Al Gore to give them permission to go outside with their sunscreen and parasols. I know they have a few of those (by and large in Sydney) but your statement is ridiculous.

If YOU knew anything about Australia you'd know this- and you'd also know that much of Southern Australia (esp. Tasmania) can be sunless, wet and cold during Winter (and yes they even have ski resorts but anyone with money just goes to NZ).

So get off it.

Ive spent a lot of time in the USA, and largely in SoCal. SoCal has always strucjk me as very similar to much of AUS, must be the all gum trees there planted by miners. A few years ago I was at conference in Disneyland for my sins. It was 105degf, and I was really surprised to see parents allowing little kids in the pool uncovered. That does not happen in AUS. Kids wear hats, rash suits and zinc cream. 105f deg, as it was last weekend, will fry you red in 5 minutes. Australia has the highest instance of skin cancer in the world. The ozone hole in the southern hmeisphere is real and you are well advised to take the Australian sun very seriously.

[The Gaijin]

Poor Canadiens. They got all our pantywaist Loyalists after the Revolution...

[lisa_spyder]

"I love being an Aussie and I love being free"....

We lot down here sometimes take for granted how good we've got it and how wonderful this country truly is.

It is a country now woven of many cultures; a caleidescope (sp?) in a many ways.

Over the decades there were influxes from other regions around the world. My maternal grandparents came in the late 20s and my father and his family came here in 1952. They all became "Naturalised Australians" and in fact Dad did not even keep his birth country citizenship. Once he was an Aussie, he was ONLY an Aussie. He and a lot of others didn't denounce their birth countries; but they did adopt their new country as their "first". They brought their traditions and customs certainly, but they embraced the Australian way with gusto...why else would they have come here if it wasn't for a better way of life?

What I cannot understand or accept these days is that most of the trouble we have down here is caused not by first generation immigrants, but by their children who were born here! They are Australian Citizens for Chrissakes!These kids take all that is good from "the Australian Way" and then create havoc by engaging in racist behaviour of sometime the worst kind.

I love that we can celebrate the traditions of so many varied cultures down here. I even love that we Aussies have the right to demonstrate; even if I don't agree...what I don't love is that so few are trying to hold the rest of us to ransom.

I agree wholeheartedly with Howard; even though he made that speech years ago it still applies now, right now. "You" don't like how things are down here; then damned well go back to where "you" came from. "You" have that right...to leave.

I will respect anyone's race, creed, religion and customs. In fact I welcome them. I teach our kids to respect and embrace "other ways". Respect "mine" in return though please and don't ram "your" beliefs down "my" throat as the "right and only" way.

Like I said "I love being an Aussie and I love being free". The few troublemakers we have here now need to remember their families came here seeking this very freedom and their actions are denying (and defying) that freedom for all of us.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by cairns

Well I too love Australia. And think it's a shame that Howard lost.

But the conservatives will be back. The frothing twits from Kings Cross are but a temporary condition.

I think the best comments on this issue have already been made in one of my favorite columns by Charles Krauthammer back in June of 2006:

Why I Love Australia
By Charles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- In the Australian House of Representatives last month, opposition member Julia Gillard interrupted a speech by the minister of health thusly: "I move that that sniveling grub over there be not further heard.''
.

Kings Cross is Sydney's club and red light district, so Im sure what you are getting at with this. The Labor new govt will get two terms, and it will take the Tories at least that long to recover from their train wreck at the last election. A sitting Prime Minster was chucked out of his seat. Reasonable people in Australia are optimistic about the future again.

Julia is quite popular, she is now the Deputy Prime Minister. A very capable lady.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

The only tyranny you face is the tyranny of intellectual oppression by those who fear religion.

I think you have it backward:

"...the only tyranny you face is the tyranny of religious oppression by those who fear intellectualism."

There, that's better.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by dd74

I think you have it backward:

"...the only tyranny you face is the tyranny of religious oppression by those who fear intellectualism."

There, that's better.

If I was at all religious I would be offended, but since I am neither, I find your affirmation of my observation amusing.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

If I was at all religious I would be offended, but since I am neither, I find your affirmation of my observation amusing.

Hardly an affirmation, dear boy. More a refusal and correction.

Anyway, back to topless Australian beaches...

[stuartj]

Lisa. You dont have rights, not in the way that a US citizen has rights. You dont have freedoms. You have privledges granted to you by the Queen. Of England. And by extension, her Australian government. Remember that. Ask David Hicks what it means.

This was never going to change under John "I did but see her passing by" Howard.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by dd74

Hardly an affirmation, dear boy. More a refusal and correction.

Anyway, back to topless Australian beaches...

You're right, Sparky, but only about the topless beaches...

[masraum]

I clicked expecting to see a thread about hot Australian chicks with sexy accents and got more politics talk. Ugh!

[lisa_spyder]

Give me a break Stuart - I'm not going to turn this thread into a republican or political debate.

We ALL have rights and freedoms down here and you know it.

Lisa. You dont have rights, not in the way that a US citizen has rights. You dont have freedoms. You have privledges granted to you by the Queen. Of England. And by extension, her Australian government. Remember that. Ask David Hicks what it means. This was never going to change under John "I did but see her passing by" Howard.

These comments of yours belong in another thread....BTW how come "I" don't have rights according to you - you live here too, remember, so perhaps your statements should read "we"... or are you exempt for some reason. Give me a break mate....

The Labor new govt will get two terms, and it will take the Tories at least that long to recover from their train wreck at the last election. A sitting Prime Minster was chucked out of his seat. Reasonable people in Australia are optimistic about the future again.

Julia is quite popular, she is now the Deputy Prime Minister. A very capable lady.

and so do these. You want to debate Labor vs Liberal, Republicanism etc - maybe you should start another thread.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

You're right, Sparky, but only about the topless beaches...

I admit, if affirm means acknowledge, then I did do that. The same as I would a topless beach. If I didn't affirm it, I'd fear tremendously for my male wiring.