Vista round 3

[SLO-BOB]

Another interesting Vista glitch - I turned off "proteceted mode" and lowered security to medium because web pages were loading slow or not at all (despite working fine on my XP desktop). Vista warned me that it didn't like that and asked me to reconsider, to which I declined. I then opened the web page; it happened quickly as it should. And then another opened, and another, and another.... It went on a web page opening rampage! I couldn't stop it short of a forced shut down.

I'm sure in the "right hands" Vista works fine. I guess what I did wrong was thinking it might just work like XP.

Never again. I'll buy XP machines until they no longer make them. By then hopefully MS will scrap Vista. Probably won't happen that way, so at that time Apple will have won another user.

[CurtEgerer]

I've been using a Vista Gateway notebook for almost 6 months. I'm basically computer illiterate and have generally poor luck with computers ... so there is the strong possibility that it is an absolute piece of ***** but I'm not smart enough to know it.

I've had a grand total of 1 problem - I mistakenly had 2 firewalls running at the same time after I loaded Avast on it. That really screwed it up, but was easily corrected by doing a system restore. Since then, I just turn it on and use it everyday. I don't even think about it. Should I be worried?

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Debatable




They run more native OS's so yes, more functional.


"The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year (through 10/25/07) is a Mac. Try that again: The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year--or for that matter, ever--is a Mac. Not a Dell, not a Toshiba, not even an Alienware. The $2419 (plus the price of a copy of Windows Vista, of course) MacBook Pro's PC WorldBench 6 Beta 2 score of 88 beats Gateway's E-265M by a single point, but the MacBook's score is far more impressive simply because Apple couldn't care less whether you run Windows."

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136649-page,3-c,notebooks/article.html

Same article has comparative PC laptops in the same price range and also north of $3k.



Thanks for the compliment.

If you believe that test, or that article you're in trouble. You can keep all the Macbooks, they all failed miserably in our real world lab concept test. No support for any of corporate VPN's, no support for many of our large enterprise applications. I guess if like to surf and doodle, it's for you. But Vista native on our Dell's is proving to be more than adequate as our new laptop and desktop standard in the midrange.

And I know the macbook runs both, however I can't have 40,000 end users switch OS emulations. It's not efficient, and the training required would be a nightmare. Most of our users struggle with find the power switch.

[stevepaa]

Which VPN and applications are not supported on a mac?

[k9handler]

I guess I am one of the very few who like Vista. I now have it on all 7 computers in my house and it works well for all of us. Parental controls are awesome so my 4 kids are "Safe" on the internet with me getting weekly reports, and as Admin I must approve websites and emails.

Has there been some roadblocks? YEP...but they were easy enough to get past.

However, my next computer will be a Mac as I have yet to own one and I love my iPod's so much it's worth a try.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by stevepaa

Which VPN and applications are not supported on a mac?

cisco 3000 failed the hardening test, and overall worked terribly, not macs fault, Cisco flat out told us its a backburner project for them, and Aventail didn't work either. The Aventail engineer we have on-site messed with it for a few days, then escalated, and finally got it to launch without a panic. But it again failed on hardening. (we are a PCI compliant corporation)

Secondly, Landesk wasn't able to deploy patches to it, SMS couldn't inventory it, and ECM requires a major module upgrade at an alarming cost to maintain configuration and hardening. It just goes on, our Kingston secured memory sticks don't support it, our encryption transfer software that we load on every drive doesn't support it.

I could go on, and on with things that didn't work, it was a nightmare. And the obtuse explanations from our vendors was a sure sign that we needed to stop any further testing. Great machine for web browsing and toting to the college classroom, lousy at the corporate side. I sent their servers back as well, there was no point in even opening them at that point.

And before you think I have any bias, I'm a solaris/unix/linux/windows/hp ux guy so I run in every scene. I'm head of R&D at the largest financial transaction processor in the world, so we put everything through the proper tests here.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Scott R

If you believe that test, or that article you're in trouble. You can keep all the Macbooks, they all failed miserably in our real world lab concept test. No support for any of corporate VPN's, no support for many of our large enterprise applications. I guess if like to surf and doodle, it's for you. But Vista native on our Dell's is proving to be more than adequate as our new laptop and desktop standard in the midrange.

And I know the macbook runs both, however I can't have 40,000 end users switch OS emulations. It's not efficient, and the training required would be a nightmare. Most of our users struggle with find the power switch.

See there you go. That article addressed none of the issues that you experienced. Their point was the hardware is a comparable cost and you don't need to run OS X at all if you don't want to. Just boot into Vista natively, remove OS X altogether if you want. Your issues were not a hardware issue.

40K user corporate installations are NOT Apples market. No one ever claimed it was.

If you were considering an OS swap I'd think the cost analysis alone would have stopped you dead in your tracks. Switching from Windows to OS X or Linux goes beyond the operating system. Training and new software would easily be far more expensive than just the hardware alone.

I once had a CEO who was not a Mac Fan boy at all suggest migrating to Windows.

When he found out that the software suites that we used would cost north of $10k PER MACHINE for the Windows versions he shut up real quick.

[450knotOffice]

I'm just an average home user who bought a new Toshiba laptop with Vista pre-loaded. I've had it five days now and the unit just goes black randomly and frequently. I've never had an issue like this and I'm beginning to think it's a Vista bug of some sort.

[gr8fl4porsche]

Scott,
Try this update and let me know if it fixes your issue.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932406

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

I'm just an average home user who bought a new Toshiba laptop with Vista pre-loaded. I've had it five days now and the unit just goes black randomly and frequently. I've never had an issue like this and I'm beginning to think it's a Vista bug of some sort.

Also go here:

www.notebookforums.com

Hands down the largest laptop support community, they average 2000 some odd people on at any given time.

[t951]

Vista is crap. As a professional geek I can tell you that. XP is miles better. Unless you require DirectX10, stay with XP.

At our house I run the following:

Ubuntu for file and print.
Network Appliance for storage (I told you I was a geek).
Mac Mini for the wife (she wanted that stayed up and I wouldn't futz with.
Macbook Pro ( for web and general surfing). VMWare Image of XP on it.
Vista Ultimate (for gaming and Media Center sharing to the Xbox 360).

We run SBS2003R2 for our email and web.

I can tell you if Crysis didn't make a DirectX 10 version I would not run Vista. It's crap. I have it as stripped down and running as little as possible and it still uses almost 1GB RAM just idling.

Driver issues, lockups, and the fact that it takes FOREVER to reboot.....

[450knotOffice]

Thanks guys. I'll look at both links.

Btw, I had XP on my last laptop and pretty much loved it. I never, ever had a problem with it.

[450knotOffice]

Is this true? Vista can use 1GB or RAM just idling? That's amazing. How can I check that on my computer?

[SLO-BOB]

My Dell Vostro 1400 showed up yesterday. The Vostro must be Dells replacement for the Inspiron. I've had Latitudes, which are fine, but look cheap imo. The Vostro looks much nicer. I spec'd XP so my problems are over. As expected, everything worked out as it should. All programs loaded, network and printers recognized, life is good. This time I chose a 14 inch widescreen. I usually get 15.6 screens, but I thought I would try a smaller model. I like it! The Dell looks a lot nicer than the Compaq I returned. The Compaq had a pebbly, cheap black plastic shell ala WalMart tacklebox. The Dell is smooth, has nice chrome accents and blue leds. Not too much bling, but a little bit of style so I won't have to hide it under a newspaper in the coffee shop.

On a different note, returning the Compaq to Best Buy sucked. I wiped the drive clean for obvious reasons. Unfortunately, BB has (probably wisely) decided not to trust the customer anymore. They insisted on running it through it's paces to make sure I had not damaged it. They also were insistant on enforcing the 15% restocking fee. Their stance is that the machine is not defective. My stance is it didn't do what the salesman said it would do. That did not seem to matter much to them, but they did meet me half way and charge me a 7% fee. I'll contest that with my credit card co.

Back to the topic - I think it's clear that Vista is a flop. Say what you want, it is not an intuitive step up from XP. I'm not even sure it is a step up - at least in my experience. BB said it's totally different from XP and I need to re-learn computers (not to mention buy new software!). Bull*****. My first computer was a Vic Commador. I then had an Apple IIc and then in College a Mac +. From there I went to Intel and worked my way up through the various operating systems. I even switched over to Mac OSX for awhile. No problem there except that the hardware failed me - 6 times. Back to Intel. I have never had so much trouble operating a computer. Imo - Vista should have been an easy transition from XP with some enhancements and refinemets. I know I'm not alone in this because Dell sells new XP units and the guy at BB fessed up that they have a "business" website that sells XP. Now you tell me.

[Mule]

I b!tched about Vista at first. It's definitely not an "intuitive step." After a couple of weeks on the learning curve, it hums reliably, runs whatever I need.

As much as all you Mac guys would like to think that you are the only ones smart enough to realize Mac greatness, you would be wrong.

Since their introduction Macs have been A. overpriced, machine costs 2 to 3X as much as a PC, same for accessories, software is also more. B. Slow, many simple processes such as printing a simple text document take much longer on a Mac, C. Inflexible, very little software available by comparison D. difficult and expensive to service, pc service is available at 50 to 1 over MAC. E. Obnoxious, I like the choices of different keyboards, mice, trackballs etc that are available for PC's but not for Macs.

If they are really as superior as you folks purport, Apple has worse marketing than the guy who lost the DC mayor's race to Marion Berry. They may be attempting to make some strides, but they have a long way to go.

[gr8fl4porsche]

I returned a notebook to BB and of course they charged me the 15% restocking fee even though the salesboy said there would be no fee since it was an open box item. I returned it factory fresh as well.

Did not get anywhere arguing with the store manager so I took it up with BB Corporate. I won the battle and they credited my credit card. Took almost 2 months of emailing back and forth but finally the customer service rep agreed with me. Took more emails to get him to actually get off his but and enter my credit.

I am not happy with BB but continue to purchase last minute computer stuff from them since CompUSA shut their doors in the Midwest. Only other Superstore around me with lots of parts is Circuit City - their stores are so poorly run and organized I can barely walk in there.

To help me understand what is wrong with Vista, I am in the process of setting up a dual-boot with Vista and XP on this notebook which has 2 drives.

I will install the same programs on the same network with the same files and printer, use it for a couple of weeks back and forth and report my findings. Vista works fine for me. But I do love a challenge. I enjoy it when my rig has problems and I can spend time learning how to fix it. It's kindof like a 911 which works perfectly, eventually you secretly wish something would go wrong so you can tinker with it and get the satisfaction that you learned something new and fixed it yourself.

My test rig for this experiment is a Toshiba Qosmio G35 600 running Vista Ultimate and XP Pro with 4 gigs of ram and an Intel T2400 Duo-Core 1.83.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by gr8fl4porsche

I do love a challenge. I enjoy it when my rig has problems and I can spend time learning how to fix it. It's kindof like a 911 which works perfectly, eventually you secretly wish something would go wrong so you can tinker with it and get the satisfaction that you learned something new and fixed it yourself.
.

You are a sick man.

My response to the manager's indifference was to state that he clearly does not understand the concept of customer service. Being polite and saying "No." is not customer service. I further explained that without said CS, there is no reason to buy from him instead of online where I can usually get it cheaper. Ironically, most online vendors have a more liberal return policy to make up for the dubious convenience of an in person transaction.

I'll avoid Best Buy and buy everything I can online from now on. I wonder if the $42 was worth it?

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by Mule

As much as all you Mac guys would like to think that you are the only ones smart enough to realize Mac greatness, you would be wrong.

Since their introduction Macs have been A. overpriced, machine costs 2 to 3X as much as a PC, same for accessories, software is also more. B. Slow, many simple processes such as printing a simple text document take much longer on a Mac, C. Inflexible, very little software available by comparison D. difficult and expensive to service, pc service is available at 50 to 1 over MAC. E. Obnoxious, I like the choices of different keyboards, mice, trackballs etc that are available for PC's but not for Macs.

If they are really as superior as you folks purport, Apple has worse marketing than the guy who lost the DC mayor's race to Marion Berry. They may be attempting to make some strides, but they have a long way to go.

Careful - you might awaken the wrath of the anonymous hate PMer. The one and only insulting PM I have ever received (believe it or not! ) was from some coward who didn't like my behavior in a Mac bashing thread. While it is possible I was out of line, I at least stand behind my words and don't hide behind some pathetic pseudo identity created soley for sending such messages. Naturally, the wuss deactivated the reply option. Pathetic.

[450knotOffice]

Scott, yesterday I downloaded all of the latest updates and patches and I believe that one was in the package. The reason I believe it was is that just now I went to the link you provided, which led me to an update from MS that was supposed to fix the problem. I went through the process and it returned a message stating that the update didn't apply to my computer. This leads me to believe I already have it.

However, yesterday night the computer blacked out again. It doesn't shut down. The screen just goes to full black with a very faint ghostly glow that tells me it's still got power. The only way I can recover after that is to force a shutdown by holding the power button for a few seconds until it powers down.

Does this seem like a Vista problem or a Toshiba problem?

[SLO-BOB]

Or a Toshiba problem with Vista? I have a lot of friends that swear by Toshiba computers. Never heard of your "ghostly" scenario from them. Of course, they all run XP.