Worth a Read, even if you don't agree...
 

Something I got today

Agree almost completely

I agree with most except this - FDR may have led us there BUT Germany and Italy declared war on the US December 11th.


a. FDR led us into World War II.

b.Germany never attacked us; Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost an average of 112,500 per year.

Pretty much sums up how I feel about it.

but that won't be taught to any children..cause the truth doesn't fit in with the pc life now

An oldie, but goodie. Since today in Jan. 15th, this thing needs to be dated.

2005 called, they want their glurge back...

yeah, we "took" Iraq pretty quickly. It will take decades for use to give it back though...

But in the meantime, we're making out like bandits by exploiting their oil. :)

We still have troops in Korea. We had/have troops in Germany, Japan, Cuba, the Phillipines... It's hard to leave a country once you get in there and (depending on your political slant) contribute to the freedom of/oppress and ruin said country.

oh man, I can't believe what some people believe.

For the record, Glenn (not a senator yet) ran against Metzenbaum in 70 and lost, then ran again in 74 and won the Democratic nomination and was subsequently re-elected to be Ohio's first 4-term senator. Yes he was a Democrat for the record.

In the 74 primary, Metzenbaum never said 'How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?'

Instead he said that Glenn "had never met a payroll" which was more about civilian leadership, much the same way Rudy and Governors parade about their Management experience versus running senators saying they've never managed a budget, etc.

I'm guessing this email spam came through before some Nigerian needing your help and right after cheap Viagra.




Lastly, I'm not so sure it's a great argument to say how everyone in the past screwed up, so it's OK for our guy to screw up too. Team Bush had 50 years of history and experience to guide them in the right direction. Instead they followed Johnson's/McNamara's playbook to the letter.

never see that in the "ARIZONA REPUBLIC" newspaper or on any news channel. historically correct,timelines correct, witnesses, pictures to document, all the pertinent facts.


NOPE makes much too much sense to let the public know!

I appreciate our military as much as anybody. From my perspective, the military option is very interesting, and unique and specific. First, it is widely considered to be a sign of failure when a political figure finds he must invoke the military option. I agree with that.

Second, the military option is very narrow. Troops should not be expected to build nations or improve a nation's reputation. Politics should be done by politicians. Troops have a very narrow application. Even asking them to defend a piece of real estate is dicey. The thing troops are uniquely good it is capturing real estate. That was their job in WW2. Not in Iraq, though. The situation in Iraq is not a particularly neat and clean application for military muscle.

If you're looking for an organization that will reduce hatred, or instill peace.....the military is not the ideal organization for that.

No, the Taliban has not been crushed and Al Queda has not been crippled. Indeed, some believe their causes have been helped by our decision to pretend this is a military opportunity.

If the Iraq matter, and terrorism, were sufficiently similar to our agenda in WW2, I would agree with stuff like what is written above. It is not. Dubya's dad understood the military option. He gave Schwartzcopf a very simple mandate, and then he got out of the way and let the military handle it in whatever ways they deemed appropriate. The mandate was to capture a bit of real estate. Perfect. Dubya's mandate is not similar, and his interference does not help.

Snopes.com says it's TRUE but of course you know better than they do.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

a bunch of nonsensical unrelated events, mix with a little falsehood and it somehow adds up to something??

guess this is why Bush got elected twice.

uh no, the quote is not correct per SNOPES.

well, close reading and analysis are over-rated:

Metzenbaum's comment was widely publicized and interpreted by many including Glenn himself as a slam that Glenn had "never held a (real) job" (even though Metzenbaum hadn't actually used those words), and Glenn went into the Cleveland debate a few days later well-prepared to answer the charges. Although Metzenbaum didn't raise the "job" issue during the debate, Glenn nonetheless seized the opportunity to launch into his carefully-crafted "I have held a job" retort, invoking stirring images of motherhood, sacrifice, and patriotism. Although it was a rehearsed speech rather than the impromptu response legend has since made it out to be, Glenn's stinging rebuke to Metzenbaum was a masterful stroke that swung momentum in his favor. He bested Metzenbaum by 8 percentage points in the primary and was elected to the U.S. Senate in the general election, carrying all 88 counties in Ohio in the process.

I'm sure the liberal opposition could concoct an equally convincing, equally skewed, and polar opposite diatribe. As usual, the truth probably is found somewhere in between.

Also - I don't think GW would quickly justify his war based on Viet Nam or Bosnia. He's smarter than that.

Whose failure? The side that pretended to "negotiate" for a dozen years, or the side that naively thought negotiation was possible?

Try again friend.

it must really bug you that John Glenn, a truly unimpeachable American hero, is a Democrat.

You guys like to put up the "shiny beautiful" women of the Republican party pic against the photoshopped women of substance of the Democratic party.

Well here we have Democrat John Glenn, Marine, Test Pilot, Astronaut, Hero up against George Bush, Guard pilot-wannabe who didn't even serve his time, safe on the homefront, who has done more damage to this country than any other sitting President in history.

I don't think that conservative Democrats bother most of us.

Meh, things like this need to be repeated. We all need a reminder.

That comparison makes about as much sense as Clinton v. Bush 41 or Clinton v. Bob Dole. Or Clinton v. Bush 43 for that matter. Actually, both Clintons have to take a pass on anything military-related.

John Glenn was a hero. My parents are Republicans and they named my brother after John Glenn (my brother's middle name is Glen).

As far as the shiny, beautiful people comparison, that poster is a response to the left's fictitious monopoly on good looks. You could put together a pretty convincing roster of hollywood hotties who are homogenous in their support of the Democrats.

But you have to admit, Janet Reno, Donna Shalala, Madeline Albright (worst secretary of state ever!!) and Helen Thomas, with that catcher's mitt strapped to her face, are exponentialy ugly!

Quote about Iraq
 

Snopes also noted that the remarks about prior US wars was attributed to Glenn when he never said it or wrote it. Whoever wrote that short essay, however, had some good points.

The key point is that Americans are hypersensitive to military casualties and if you lost a son or daughter in a war you will understand. By the measure of loss of life, Iraq has barely been a blip on the radar screen. Wars are necessary sometimes and to blame President Bush because he's a Republican and ignore the track record of Democrats when it comes to war isn't a fair argument. If political party is an indicator of warmongering then the Democrats and Republicans are pretty even; therefore we may only have one choice, the Green Party, if we want no more war no matter what. But then we'll all have to put our Porsches in the garage and never drive them again. Too many emissions and no fuel.

Most of what we attribute to politicians, at least modern ones, was not written by them. They have speech and copy writers and plenty of stuff that gets approved still never sees the light of day. Anyone think Bush ever wrote one of his speeches? He has some of the best speech writers ever, but can barely get through a few sentences without mangling words. One of Clinton's best performances was done from memory when his staffers loaded the wrong speech into the teleprompters, but they were already live on tv.

The whole WMD thing was inflated because of a bad speech...

The entire article holds true: You CAN fool some of the people all of the time. If the info contained confirms your pre conceived ideas, then it must be true.

this thing actually reads exactly like propaganda from the flip-side twin towers conspiracy theorist tinfoil hat set.

lots of ALCOA shareholders in this thread.:rolleyes:

It appears as if many people here do not really know the difference between getting our troops maimed and killed for legitimate reasons or for exagerrated and questionable reasons.

Iraq posed no more threat to the USA than dozens of other nations around the globe. In fact, Bush has just proposed to send $billions of dollars of weapons to MANY Middle East nations that very well may use them (and possibly against us) in the not too distant future.

Very difficult to pretend that you are seeking "peace" while providing the weapons for exactly the opposite.

And the answer is?

So, given the opportunity to make the decision, how would you have handled the middlebeast when Iraq invaded Kuwait and what would you do starting today?

Good question: what should we do starting today. How's this for starters?

When Iraq or Iran or any other nation in the unholy area known as the "Holy Land" has a problem it should not immediately be OUR problem. Unless we have an agenda that most Americans do not understand. There are dozens of nations that it should impact far sooner than it should the USA.

Our troops should not get maimed or killed just to be the policemen of the world for nut cases like Cheney, Wolfowitz, Pearle, and the rest of the chickenhawks who control Bush's brain.

We should tell ALL nations of the Middle East (including our best buddy Israel) that as of Monday all support and aid is done...over...finished...period. And that in the future our support, aid, and responses will be based on nothing but what they actually do. And then do precisely that.

Any other questions?

yup, well shrub at least didn't run off to England like billy & hilly

OK, so let them take care of their problems or get a bunch of nations together to gang up on them. Well, I'm not so sure that would be such a good idea for many reasons. Who would have stood up to Iraq when they into Kuwait if the US / UK didn't? The UN? Iran? And after Iraq was beaten back and the UN put forth a bunch of resolutions, how many years went by with all the inspector turn-backs et al?

I agree that the situation is not great but I am not so sure there would have been anything else that could have been done that would have made a difference?

Ignoring the situations and they will end up getting truely out of control - even more so than now.

These glurge articles, and the reactions by the folks that the glurge is intended for, reminds me of these fine fellas standing around, swilling beer and saying "yep" to everything any of them say.

http://www.psp411.com/mods/psp411_com-mods-1196-1.jpg

At least they recycle. :)

Exactly the way it was handled by the smarter Bush - Get in. Kick Saddam's a$$ back to Bahgdad, get out. Unfortunately, his son didn't take Dad's advice and stay the hell out of Iraq. Dad knew it was a quagmire from which it would be difficult, if not impossible, to emerge. When the towers fell, the one thing that GW did right, set up shop in Afghanistan, was set aside for his lame a$$ excuse for a war in Iraq. It's common knowledge that he had a hardon for Iraq since the begining and 911 was one hell of a convenient excuse to invade a country that posed a minimal threat to the US. To say that the "wmd" thing was a bad speech is bull*****. Bush milked that cow dry anytime a camera was on. When that wore out and was proven false, he fell back on the humanitarian effort, which then gave way to the failsafe "terrorist sympathizer/funder". While that part may well be true, imo, he totally lost focus on how to wage war (notice I didn't say win) on terrorism in a way that would have meaningful effect. However, Bush couldn't have done this alone. He had a LOT of backing by both parties. That backing has conveniently evaporated with hindsight.

What to do now?? I really hate to say it - Stay the course. We, as a country are commited. I believe that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. It would be a shame to let this go now. Believe me - I really hate to take this stance. Aside from that, I really think we should focus a little closer to our own borders and quit meddling in affairs that can't be controlled - i.e. strife in the mid east. Oh yeah, and plant a big old American flag in Afghanistan.

We should place a War Tax on anyone who voted for Bush twice, to pay for the war.

Just as long as we can be exempted from paying for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, the Department of Education, the EPA, farm subsidies, corporate welfare...SmileWavy

Sounds good, Dems pay for those and we'll pick up the war.

Deal Shaun?

Not just Dems Joel, there are plenty of Republicans smart enough to have not voted for Bush twice. Not sure why legion included Republican Corporate Socialism in that list. That's your bailout baby.

But on the whole, yes, I'd rather sink $ into programs that have a chance of making a difference than burn $ and American lives in Iraq. And I'm not so sure you want to take on the cost VA/healthcare for injured/wounded mental/physical, and of course you'll be making payments to China directly.

On EPA, we'll take that, but will be billing you for ruining the environment and public health.

Farm Subsidies, I may be wrong, but I think that's yours too.

I am in too! :) If we are paying , can we kick the shiite out of Iran also any way we see fit without the media showing it on the 6:00 news? I am betting we could do a much better job kicking @ss if we could operate without having to wear kid gloves so as not to offend the bleeding hearts. ;)

I am really liking this concept Shaun! :D

PS thanks again for the care package at X-mas, I will have to get and post some pics of my nephews wearing there "Uncle Tim" stuff.