Question for the Pilots

[legion]

To resolve an argument with a coworker...

Let's say someone owns a single-engine GA-type aircraft. Can they just "hop in and go" like in a car? Or do they have to do fuel calculations taking distance and wind speed into account and plan fuel stops along their route?

[Joeaksa]

Its possible "within reason" so to speak. You always do a pre-flight inspection on the aircraft and check oil and fuel... EVERY TIME, but the rest is left up to the PIC (pilot in command). I live in Arizona and about 90% of the time if its clear where I live, its clear in most of the state.

Wind and fuel are not an issue for the first 4 hours, then you need to look at both.

Joe

PS this is with my personal aircraft, not the one I fly for a living.

[p911dad]

I have known pilots to do just that, but you are violating several FAR's. You as the pilot are responsible for the safe outcome of the flight and that includes making yourself as knowledgeable as possible about the planned route, fuel needed for the expected time in transit plus what is needed to reach alternates(if necessary),weather, destination details, notams(notices to airmen) covering the route and destinations, etc. The FAA is merciless on those pilots that have bad outcomes caused by lack of flight planning. If you are VFR and not transiting certain busy areas, you do not need a flight plan(although it only takes a few minutes to file one and then someone knows your route is something goes wrong-cheap insurance). Glenn

[legion]

How long would it take to fly from Columbus to Peoria, IL.

I ask because the doctor I referenced in the Skymaster thread ran out of gas flying from Columbus to Peoria, and landed in Bloomington. To me, that was cutting it awfully close on fuel.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Technically the pilot is responsible for adequate preflight preparation and planning. IIRC the pertinent regulation reads "availing him/her self of all possible sources of information which pertain to the flight being planned". I forget the exact word-for-word (I'd have to look it up), but that's the jist of it. Based on that "letter of the law", it strongly implies that simply "hopping in and going" is discouraged, if not outright illegal. You'd have a helluva time standing up in court and justifying how you "availed yourself of all possible sources of information" if you "hopped in and went" and something happened, right?

That said, there's a real-world approach to flying that is not necessarily the same as the FAA's idealized version: if a pilot is comfortable with "hopping in and going", that's their business in MOST cases (there's a line past which it violates the "common sense" rule and it would be appropriate for a third party to intervene or say something, kind of like a friend at a bar having had "one too many").

If the pilot flies regularly, knows the airplane and the route, etc. it's normally understood by others that "they're the Pilot-In-Command, they're assuming the liability, it's their call". If I see someone getting ready to take off with full fuel and going somewhere very close by, and it's severe clear good weather for 1,000 miles in every direction, I'm unlikely to say anything if it looks like they're getting ready to "hop in and go". The presumption is that they know what they're doing - unless something looks out of place or it appears that they're about to do something very stupid.

If there is ever an incident though, you can bet that the NTSB (or FAA) will investigate into the extent of preflight planning done. If it ends up that it was a contributing factor, that person is probably looking at some "remedial training", a certificate suspension or both, not to mention civil liability.

In flying, as with most things, a certain amount of common sense needs to be exercised. It may not be appropriate to do two hours of preflight planning for an "over the hill", 15-minute flight from Santa Monica to Van Nuys in VFR conditions, but it's certainly not appropriate to do 5 minutes of preflight planning to do a four-hour, IFR flight from Santa Monica to Reno (for example). The latter example could even potentially qualify as a violation of FAR 91.13 ("careless and reckless operation"), a "catch-all" in the regulations. If I ever heard anyone bragging about doing such a thing, I'd have a few words with them for sure. Possibly even with a local FAA official.

Two truths I learned in aviation:

"That which is legal is not necessarily smart"
"That which is technically illegal is sometimes the smarter choice"

For such an exacting discipline, aviation does have a lot of "grey areas" at times - ones which experience and common sense are the governing principles.

[Seahawk]

With few exceptions, I always start any flight with a full bag of gas.

There have been times when I needed to take weight off the aircraft to get out of a confined area and traded in fuel, but that is rare.

I do mental fuel calcs enroute as well and establish a firm "bingo" fuel state when it is time to land at a divert field or, in my case, ship

[p911dad]

Columbus, OH is about 400 miles from Peoria, IL and that is well within the range of a Skymaster. If you flight planned for cruise of 165 knots, that is a little over 2 hours. The Skymaster has at least 4 hours of range, as I recall, at 23 gallons per hour with standard fuel capacity of 92 or so gallons. Maybe there were severe headwinds or he took off without full fuel(maybe he was carrying a load and took golf clubs and people instead of fuel). Again, flight planning is the responsibility of the PIC.

[legion]

He doesn't have a Skymaster (I was just referencing the thread that got me on this subject). He has something like a four-seater single-engine Cessna.

[Tim Hancock]

It depends.......

I often simply open the hangar door, drag the plane outside, do a quick preflight (more or less... check the fuel, oil and tires), look up at the sky, hop in and buzz around the patch.

Now if I am actually going somewhere of any distance, I will call for a weather briefing, check notams etc and will cross check that info with weather on my phone and or computer.

My preflight can vary at times also as I keep my airplane at home in my locked hangar, but if I fly someone elses airplane or leave mine parked unattended, my pre-flight will always be more intensive.

For this type of flight,



pretty much just "kick the tire, light the fire"

(even in my situation above however, I ALWAYS do a thorough check of controls, fuel and ignition prior to pushing the go lever )

[onewhippedpuppy]

The accident reports section in Flying magazine is full of pilots who "thought" they had enough fuel to make their destination. As in, they didn't bother to check.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

A couple of those old "aviation aphorisms" come to mind:

"An airplane will fly a little bit over gross weight, but it sure won't fly without gas"

"Three most useless things in aviation: Altitude above you, runway behind you and air in the tanks"

Also, "what's the first thing a guy does after declaring an emergency and landing in an empty field 'off airport' due to fuel starvation"? Answer: "switches the fuel selector onto the tank with fuel in it".

[BlueSideUp]

I haven't flown GA in a long time but from what I hear it's pretty important to check on the random temporary restricted airspace that seems to pop up these days.

[MT930]

The bright side of running out of fuel is the fire tends to be smaller.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. . ."

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. . ."

Or maybe coming to the end of a 2000' grass strip in a Grumman Yankee on a hot humid day with a heavy friend in the right seat Turns you into a full flap dropping religious man in an instant!

Note to newbie pilots who want to buy their first airplane a couple hours after obtaining their private ticket in C-150's: Avoid Grumman Yankees if you intend to operate off of short grass strips (I and my Grumman lived to tell about it but others may not be so LUCKY )

[fingpilot]

I started flying the Oakland to Honolulu route right about the time the Magnun P.I. series started. No alternates, one of the longest overwater city pairs at the time, especially as we were in a twin. Got lots of respect from the DC8 and 747 types on the ramp in HNL.

3 times a week. In a Gulfstream 2. It was a 4.5 hour airplane with 45 minutes reserve (if you did everything perfectly in an imperfect world). It was a 5 hour flight westbound in the summer and more in the winter.

The math worked out that 69 knots of headwind was the bingo number. Never had any trouble remembering that one. The wind numbers in those days (pre-Boeing 99%) were reported winds. Meaning last guy out there reported. If you were first one off the deck in the morning westbound, you were pathfinding. You got good with fuel flow vs. position, and were really good with predicting how close the Pacific High was to your track by where the jet stream shifted north enroute. All done with a eyeballs, pencil, paper and testicular fortitude. We did everything possible to get every single gallon in the airplane (fuelled nose-low, bribed the fueler to fill the truck the night before and park it out in the breeze to cool the fuel, bought monthly liquid gifts for the controllers in Fremont that handled our departures, made visits with fresh flown in leis to the Oakland HF radio operators over in Hayward when we could). All to expedite that turn onto the tracks ASAP and as rapid a climb as possible out of Oakland. When it was dicey, we'd play the 'destination game'.... File for Maui (shorter leg by 30 minutes) and 'divert' to HNL if we had enough left. Even fly to Monterey and depart from there to Maui (another 30 minutes shorter) when necessary.

As the Gulfstream matured, we got the G2B, G3, and finally the G4. With it, you could leave west coast with less than full tanks, no worries. That was such a strange feeling after struggling for so many years needing every single ounce. The young guys flying this spectacular equiptment now have NO idea how good they have it.

I recently retired after 37 years, and 25000+ hours of accident and violation free flying. Am writing a lot of what happened in that time, and will incorporate some of those stories (some seen here for the first time over the years) into a book, if not for publication, for my nephews and neices who never got see much of me over the years.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

My hats off to you, sir. For one, I can certainly appreciate the guts that must've taken.

I remember "trading war stories" with guys who moved on from our little freightdog outfit into regionals and it always stunned me how quickly these guys got spoiled with their glass cockpits and GPS-es and stuff and forgot where they'd come from (flying decrepit freighters with often "inop" equipment into dumpy little airports in the middle of nowhere down to minimums, often with icing conditions and other stuff to contend with).

I wonder how many pilots today can fly an NDB approach down to minimums without staining their shorts. Ahh, that was flying.

But you also have about 8X the number of hours I do, and succeeded in making a career out of it where I didn't. Good on you - I'd love to hear your stories sometime. And yes, put me down for a copy of your book.

[cgarr]

I was in a club with 2 planes years back and would always really check them over prior to flight, many times things had to be fixed on the spot, but with my own plane which I built and know inside and out, if the fuel and oil is good, go for it. There is really no reason to ever run out of fuel. If for some reason I really got in a pinch I would just drop it in a good field (next to a house) and see if someone had a gas can and give me a ride to the local station..

[legion]

Craig, your plane ran on pump gas?

[cgarr]

Originally Posted by legion

Craig, your plane ran on pump gas?

Anything from 80 to 100