Computer Trouble -- WinXP x64 - Page 2

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

hmmm, installing is really not that much of a beni if it don't work.

Everything has issues, this one can be worked out as well. I just wrote an application, well still writing it in my lab today, where it installs windows on ANY machine without incident. Nice little pre-gui with a few simple questions, then the magic starts, 20 mins later and *poof* you're done.

djmcmath · 01-27-2008, 10:08 AM

Good point -- I can install Windows on any combination of hardware that I want. ... But it may not run well, if it runs at all. This is the classic Apple/PC debate. Historically, I've done pretty well in my gambling with PCs. I've been able to run Linux on virtually every bizarre little piece of hardware I've been able to get my hands on. I've only really had a couple of weird driver issues with Windows, too. ... But then, I never had any weird driver issues at all with my Mac. (sigh) I keep saying that I'll eventually get another laptop, and it will be a Mac.

In any event, I downloaded the trial version of Driver Magician, and it looks like a pretty spiffy program. I suppose the registration would save me the hassle of copying/pasting the provided links into a browser, but it works well enough without to see if it's any good. I'm going through the last reboot for the last driver that it recommends. I'll let you know if it worked in a moment ... Nope, no joy. That means that either I've somehow managed to miss a driver, or it isn't a driver issue at all.

If anyone else has any ideas for how to make windows xp x64 run correctly, I'll try 'em. In the meantime, I think I'll shift the focus of my efforts to making Linux run windows programs instead. I haven't tried Cedega in a while, since shortly after they split with the Wine group and went commercial. I'll give them a shot. Seems like Cedega relies on a proper windows installation, though, which means it will be pulling from the installed (flawed) windows. This may take a while; I'll update when I can.

Thanks for the ideas.

Dan

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

OK, MS Premier support is telling me that you need to make sure that your wireless adapter (if you have one) is disabled, and if you have a hard wired ethernet port disable that as well.

djmcmath · 01-27-2008, 11:36 AM

SlowToady -- Vista x64? Um ... ok, I don't mean to be rude, but that's honestly the first nice thing I've heard about Vista. Everyone I know who's installed it has reported Bad News afterwards. Wow. ... but, ok, you know what? I'll give it a shot, because it can't possibly be worse than what I'm running now. Give me a moment and I'll report back on if it worked. I'll probably try another look at the ACPI/USB/etc settings in the BIOS first. Do you have any hints on stuff that's worked for you in the past, or that's caused you problems?

Scott, are you suggesting I ... basically disable any network connectivity at all? That could be frustrating. Is it acceptable to disable it at the BIOS level (where I have full control of the computer), or does it need to be disabled in the windows control panel (which will take me a lot longer, what with the mouse and keyboard acting up)?

Thanks again for all the help. I'm having fun, honest.

Dan

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by djmcmath

SlowToady -- Vista x64? Um ... ok, I don't mean to be rude, but that's honestly the first nice thing I've heard about Vista. Everyone I know who's installed it has reported Bad News afterwards. Wow. ... but, ok, you know what? I'll give it a shot, because it can't possibly be worse than what I'm running now. Give me a moment and I'll report back on if it worked. I'll probably try another look at the ACPI/USB/etc settings in the BIOS first. Do you have any hints on stuff that's worked for you in the past, or that's caused you problems?

Scott, are you suggesting I ... basically disable any network connectivity at all? That could be frustrating. Is it acceptable to disable it at the BIOS level (where I have full control of the computer), or does it need to be disabled in the windows control panel (which will take me a lot longer, what with the mouse and keyboard acting up)?

Thanks again for all the help. I'm having fun, honest.

Dan

Just asked, they say turn it off at the bios level, and if it's a wireless add-in card, or a wireless add-in nic, pull it. They also recommend removing any other add-in card as well.

djmcmath · 01-27-2008, 12:16 PM

Ok, the only card plugged into the MB is the video card, and network and sound (which are on the MB) are both disabled at the BIOS level. Still no luck. What's next?

Dan

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by djmcmath

Ok, the only card plugged into the MB is the video card, and network and sound (which are on the MB) are both disabled at the BIOS level. Still no luck. What's next?

Dan

Since Linux is more lenient on memory, remove all but your lowest supported amount of memory.

stomachmonkey · 01-27-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott R

Since Linux is more lenient on memory, remove all but your lowest supported amount of memory.

yeah, try to run with the stock sticks.

SlowToady · 01-27-2008, 02:50 PM

I know, trust me. I said the same thing. I've read a lot of reports online, also, where users reported their computer working better after going to Vista x64. Of course, not everyone has had that sort of luck with it, as you've heard. The mix of hardware available, and then the different revisions of the same, makes it sort of a crap-shoot to determine how it will perform until you try it. From the sound of your post, you already have a copy, but if not, I can give you mine (yes, with legit Serial #). It's like Vista x64 Ultimate blah-blah-blah.

Some tips..well, let's see. Try enabling/disabling Legacy USB support. Play with your different ACPI settings. I didn't look up if that chip is dual-core (I don't think it is, though...) change the MPS settings. Take everything out, except for the video card. Disable built in USB and try an add-in USB card that you KNOW has XP x64 drivers. Try turning off sound, NIC, etc, in the BIOS. You mentioned generic memory; that can cause you all sorts of problems. If you can, try and get your hands on some Kingston or Crucial or some other name brand stuff. Might have to try a few different brands. Flash the BIOS to a newer version, or even try an older one. Does your version of XP x64 come with any SPs or updates? Try it with and without them.

Good luck...

Quote:

Originally Posted by djmcmath

SlowToady -- Vista x64? Um ... ok, I don't mean to be rude, but that's honestly the first nice thing I've heard about Vista. Everyone I know who's installed it has reported Bad News afterwards. Wow. ... but, ok, you know what? I'll give it a shot, because it can't possibly be worse than what I'm running now. Give me a moment and I'll report back on if it worked. I'll probably try another look at the ACPI/USB/etc settings in the BIOS first. Do you have any hints on stuff that's worked for you in the past, or that's caused you problems?
//snip......
Dan

SlowToady · 01-27-2008, 02:56 PM

Also, a quick glance at the mobo manual says it supports both ECC and non-ECC RAM. Try them both, of high quality variety.

djmcmath · 01-28-2008, 02:26 AM

I'll run a memory check when I get home tonight; it would be tragic if it was bad memory. I hate it when that happens. Would it be possible for memory that passes memtest to still be "bad" in the eyes of Windows? I'll see if I can get my hands on some high-end ECC memory to try, but I'm hesitant to start spending money on what is essentially easter-egging.

SlowToady, I don't have my hands on a copy of Vista x64 just yet. I was hoping to ask around and see if I could borrow a copy to find out if it would work any better. If you have some easy way of getting a working copy to me, it would speed the process up some. I'd very much appreciate the assistance.

Already tried pulling everything but the video card and disabling everything else. I don't have a USB add-in card, but it's a good idea. I'll see if I can get a cheap one at the local Computer's 'R' Us this afternoon.

Thanks for the tweaking tips; I'll go back into it this afternoon and try playing with BIOS settings again. I believe there is a BIOS update, but I'm hesitant to flash the BIOS unless I know that I have solid control of the mouse/KB.

Thanks again, all.

Dan

stomachmonkey · 01-28-2008, 05:51 AM

Does not necc need to be bad.

SIMs are speed rated in nanoseconds, ie 60ns, 70ns etc...

While some logic boards will tolerate different speed chips they should be installed as "matched" sets to avoid flakiness.

Generally I buy them faster than the recommended speed.

Say you get 60's, one can run higher and one can run lower and the combined diff can make for a mismatched set.

If you buy faster than the board can address and there is a diff in the chips the board will not see it.

I've had good chips that worked in one box and not another.

djmcmath · 01-28-2008, 08:40 AM

SM -- thanks for the memory experiences. IIRC, the two that went into this box were ordered at the same time -- I knew I needed matching memory, so I did my best to get stuff that would work well together. The memory that you found that wouldn't work in other boxes -- did it fail memtest? Assuming that I've got some kind of memory speed discrepancy, would manually setting memory speed lower at the BIOS help?

Googling today at work showed that there is a BIOS update which might potentially relate to my video card. There's a vague note on the Asus site buried in a README that says that one update for my board fixes an interface problem with ATI x600 video cards (which is what I have). There's another note that says, if you go digging through their obscura, that certain versions of the AMD Athlon 3200 require certain versions of the BIOS. I'll have to figure out which processor version I have when I get home to make sure I'm running with the proper BIOS version. I think I'll download the update to my working machine, figure out what's required to run it, then build a single-click package that I can move to the non-working machine.

That assumes, of course, that it's doing fine with the memtest right now. I started memtest as I was on my way out the door this morning. If it all comes up good, I'm going to have a hard time justifying to myself that I need to buy new memory. If it comes up bad, it's real easy to justify new memory (or ... to justify just not playing rFactor on the fast computer).

Cheers,

Dan

djmcmath · 01-28-2008, 12:48 PM

Ok, home from work, and memtest has run successfully many many times. No errors found.

And the BIOS version check ... looks like mine is recent enough to include all applicable updates. I don't have a floppy drive anyway, so booting from a floppy to get to the update would be a monstrous hassle.

Pressing on to tweak memory settings. Back in a few ...

djmcmath · 01-28-2008, 12:53 PM

StomachMonkey, you may have the strangest name, but you're one smart cookie! I turned off auto-management of memory settings and started toggling things so they looked more conservative. 1T instead of 2T, 200 instead of 400, disable anything that looks like a performance feature ... and it worked.

Memory faults it is, caused by bad auto-detection of something at the BIOS level! You can't imagine how happy this makes me! I owe you big time. Wow.

Next step, of course, is to go back through the settings and slowly switch everything back to defaults one by one and see what breaks it. I'll report back in a bit.

Wow, I'm stunned. Tweaking the memory settings manually worked! This is beautiful!

Dan

djmcmath · 01-28-2008, 01:10 PM

Found it -- The setting that breaks the system is the "Hyper Transport Frequency." Some googling shows that my combination of processor and memory should be ok at 5x, but it locks up if I use anything about 2x. Bizarre.

stomachmonkey · 01-28-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djmcmath

Found it -- The setting that breaks the system is the "Hyper Transport Frequency." Some googling shows that my combination of processor and memory should be ok at 5x, but it locks up if I use anything about 2x. Bizarre.

yay,

Nice diligence.

Always satisfying when you beat a problem like that. And the plus is you pick up some info along the way that may not have applied today but just may tomorrow.