Great big jet cockpit VRML

beepbeep · 02-01-2008, 06:40 AM

http://www.gillesvidal.com/blogpano/cockpit1.htm

livi · 02-01-2008, 06:51 AM

Very cool. It even has multiple beer mug holders!

Joeaksa · 02-01-2008, 07:04 AM

Just what we need, another airplane full of computers that feel that they are smarter than the pilots. Cannot wait to find out that the 777 accident in London was computer related. We have already lost several Airbus aircraft due to their "over controlling computer systems" and this one appears to be the worst yet...

Glad I am retiring in a few years and will not have to fly something like this.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Just what we need, another airplane full of computers

Luddite!

HardDrive · 02-01-2008, 07:36 AM

Very cool.

Joeaksa · 02-01-2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by widebody911

Luddite!

I fly one of the most advanced jets in the air today and love it but its not full of that "the computer can over-ride the pilot" crap. Airbus loves to make their planes "failsafe" which usually ends up with a computer fault that brings the bird down to earth from time to time.

Nothing wrong with the way airplanes used to be, with 2-3 pilots up front making the decisions, not being over-ruled by a computer at the last minute. Remember that you or your family might be in back and which one do you want to take on that vacation flight?

It its not a Boeing, I aint going!

Joe

cgarr · cgarr's Garage

I didn't see a Hand Axe in the cockpit?

tcar · 02-01-2008, 07:50 AM

Joe,
Except, isn't Boeing going the same direction... i.e. 777 that just did the dirt landing

dhoward · dhoward's Garage

I belive that the Boeing A/C still allow pilot input to override the computer....

Joeaksa · 02-01-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgarr

I didn't see a Hand Axe in the cockpit?

Mandatory that every commercial aircraft has a "Crash axe" in the cockpit. Its for us crew to cut a hole in the windscreen or aluminum in the even of an accident where we cannot get out of the cockpit. Yes, its happened and yes if you are on fire you can cut a hole big enough VERY FAST. The axe is usually behind the captains seat, and a fire extinguisher behind the copilots seat and are not easy to see.

Also, we have to laugh that going through security they inspect everything in our bags then let us fly a jet with a frigging AXE within inches of our seats. When the Brits had the bombings recently they would not allow pilots to take a pen or pencil in the airplane. We stopped flying when it was noted that we could not fill out our flight logs with out one.

Then someone mentioned the crash axe and they just about had kittens and tried to remove them until someone noted that the airplane is certified with them there and once removed its not legal to fly the plane without it. The idiots in blue suits were confronted and lost thank God! We returned to the air with our pens in our pocket and the crash axe in the cockpit.

Tcar,

Boeing is doing about 20% of the automation that Airbus is. Difference is that Airbus does not trust the pilot and trusts the computer more, while traditionally in an Boeing the pilots can over-ride the computer. This is supposed to be the situation in the Airbus but has not worked out very well in the past. We are all waiting to see what happened in the 777 accident to find out where the fault lies...

onewhippedpuppy · 02-01-2008, 08:21 AM

The cockpit isn't much more complex than that of a typical business jet. The degree of automation is amazing. Cool from a tech standpoint, but we're not talking about a TV here. I agree with Joe, Airbus seems determined to remove the pilot from the loop, not the best idea. As anyone with a computer knows, they are not infallible.

id10t · 02-01-2008, 08:48 AM

If you remove the HTML file from the URL there are a few more VRML/pano files - look for html files in the directory. There is a kitchen, a bar, some sort of ag market thing, etc. All way cool...

beepbeep · 02-01-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Just what we need, another airplane full of computers that feel that they are smarter than the pilots. Cannot wait to find out that the 777 accident in London was computer related. We have already lost several Airbus aircraft due to their "over controlling computer systems" and this one appears to be the worst yet...

Glad I am retiring in a few years and will not have to fly something like this.

I remember one...Habsberg (sp?) where pilot did the wrong thing and tried to do aborted landing on a plane configured for landing. Which other Airbus "crashed beacuse of computer malfunction"? It should be several according to you.

Also, it's very easy to fly the Airbus like old Boeing jet. You switch it to Direct Law...not that someone does it....it's like switching of ABS, traction control, cruise control etc. beacuse "those dang new cars are ful of computers".

777 is FBW as well...despite Boeing refusing to embrace FBW for a very long time. 787 will be too, to even higher degree. Boeing maybe needs little more time to master the art of FBW on bigger transport planes?

One thing is for sure, cables and hydraulic actuators are thing of the past. Alpha floor, banking limits etc. is possible to switch off.

rick-l · 02-01-2008, 08:56 AM

Is that big handle under the windows the window latch?

Joeaksa · 02-01-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beepbeep

Also, it's very easy to fly the Airbus like old Boeing jet. You switch it to Direct Law...not that someone does it....it's like switching of ABS, traction control, cruise control etc. beacuse "those dang new cars are ful of computers".

777 is FBW as well...despite Boeing refusing to embrace FBW for a very long time. 787 will be too, to even higher degree. Boeing maybe needs little more time to master the art of FBW on bigger transport planes?

One thing is for sure, cables and hydraulic actuators are thing of the past. Alpha floor, banking limits etc. is possible to switch off.

Yes, its very easy to put a chimp or monkey in the left seat and let them play with the controls on an Airbus. It will save their a$$ets most of the time. Its designed for a less than experienced pilot to fly the plane and the computers will save them.

Us old farts know how to fly the plane and love to have the computers "assistance" but the last thing we want is the computer to control everything. Boeing is doing this because us pilots tell them that we do not want it that way and they listen. Boeing is embracing what the airlines and pilots want because in the end we are safer than a bunch of computers and can think our way out of a difficult situation like when a computer dies.

Hyd actuators a thing of the past? Hate to tell you this but almost every airplane in the air today that flies fast and high has hyd actuators, Airbus included. Look up skydrol, the hyd fluid used on the 'bus (and Boeing) and that will keep you busy for a while.

beepbeep · 02-01-2008, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Hyd actuators a thing of the past? Hate to tell you this but almost every airplane in the air today that flies fast and high has hyd actuators, Airbus included. Look up skydrol, the hyd fluid used on the 'bus (and Boeing) and that will keep you busy for a while.

Yes of course, but I meant there are no hyd lines between cockpit and actuator on the wing. Actually, the big bus has electricaly operated actuators. You turn the joystick, it goes to computer which delivers power trough the wire to small motor in the wing which in it's turn pumps Skydrol which moves the surface. Hyd part is very short and it wouldn't surprize me if new designs bypass it completly.

Jim727 · 02-01-2008, 10:11 AM

Joe is square on-target here.

All this hyper-automation is there to make flying cheaper, not safer. The 727 "Jurassic Jet" could lose all engines, all electrics, all hydraulics and all pneumatics and still be flown and landed. Same is true for some other older aircraft, but those days are gone. They shouldn't be, but they are.

stomachmonkey · 02-01-2008, 10:29 AM

Hey Joe,

What's this behind the driver seat?

Escape hatch for you guys

Or does that lead to the sleeping quarters that they have on multi crew long hauls?

javadog · 02-01-2008, 10:38 AM

That's where the stash and the liquor goes. Shh... it's supposed to be a secret.

JR

rick-l · 02-01-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beepbeep

Yes of course, but I meant there are no hyd lines between cockpit and actuator on the wing. Actually, the big bus has electricaly operated actuators. You turn the joystick, it goes to computer which delivers power trough the wire to small motor in the wing which in it's turn pumps Skydrol which moves the surface. Hyd part is very short and it wouldn't surprize me if new designs bypass it completly.

Don't quote me on this because I have very limited exposure.
The actuators I've seen work like this.

3000 psi fluid and return is plumbed to all the actuators
The fluid goes into a spool valve (cause it looks like a spool of thread)
The spool valve controls fluid flow to a cylinder (like on a backhoe) to extend/retract the actuator
The spool valve is driven by a small DC servomotor
The position of the spool valve is monitored with an LVDT (linear variable differential transformer)
The position of the actuator is monitored with an LVDT
The flight control computer sends a current to the motor to move the spool valve which moves the surface

There is a control loop closed around the motor current, spool valve position and actuator position.

The one I saw the hydraulics were completely redundant and the electronics triple redundant.

I think in the non fly by wire designs the spool valve was controlled by a cable/mechanical feedback