If you ever had any doubt as to why we are fighting terrorists
 

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8UHNN081&show_article=1

I nearly threw up when I read this. These scumbags used two women with Down's syndrome to carry out these heinous acts. Two people that likely had no clue what they were doing and they were sacrificed.

Anyone that had previously asked whether these people were "insurgents" or "freedom fighters" just got your answer.

Yeah, it's horrible. But how is it worse than any other innocent people getting blown-up? I'm not seeing the distinction.

Our government has also "enlisted" the help of mentally Ill people for experimentation. Although these acts didn't turn them into human bombs are we that much better?

http://tinyurl.com/2sc42r

http://tinyurl.com/39emut

It's worse because they used a person that was likely incapable of understanding what was happening to them to commit their heinous act. It was someone that was likely known to them and trusted them.

I agree, that mass murder alone was bad enough. So bad that I thought nothing could be worse. This is worse.

It should also serve as a warning that there is no way that these terrorists can be reasoned with.

Try and find something from this generation before you spew your moral relativism claptrap.

Link me something from the past year that shows that we used people like this as human bombs (or something similar) and I will shut up.

We're better because we've learned and corrected our behavior. Isn't that what you want from an enlightened society?

Take your inane argument elsewhere.

Tell us, oh wise one, why we are not in Sudan. violence against innocent civilians there is WAY WAY WAY worse than in Iraq.

Just because you and I hate terrorists.......does not necessarily make it a good idea to send thousands of troops over there to pick a fight. Besides your hatred, can you come up with another reason?

Joe, why haven't you turned your anger into action and shipped out for Iraq? You might be the answer to the Iraqi peoples' prayers.

We could have ended much of this in Sudan when that country offered to hand Bin Laden over to us, but Prez Clinton declined. This is what you were referring to about Sudan I am sure.

Pick a fight? Guess you forgot...

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Yes, this is an absolutely heinous act -- makes me sick to my stomach. It's surprising to see that it doesn't particularly bother the lefties here.

"how is it worse than any other innocent people getting blown-up?"
"Our government has also "enlisted" the help of mentally Ill people for experimentation."
"oh wise one, why we are not in Sudan. violence against innocent civilians there is WAY WAY WAY worse than in Iraq."

My hatred?

Using mentally retarded people as suicide bombers, likely without that person's knowledge. Making someone like that into a mass murderer? If you can't tell evil when you see it, then I can't help you.

I don't use the term evil loosely. It needs to be reserved for times when it applies. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc.... This is one of those times.

Since you asked, we're not in the Sudan for a few reasons. Not all of them I agree with mind you. The world seems to have a double standard for the USA. They don't want the USA to unilaterally invade a country, but they also don't want us not to. Since we are spread thin in Iraq, the current administration has pushed back on the UN to deal with Sudan/Darfur. I think that's wrong. We can not allow genocide. While I also disagreed with Bill Clinton on things, he was right to get involved in Yugoslavia to help prevent ethnic cleansing. As a cynic, you could add oil to the list and I'd likely agree with you. Anything else?

Your "chickenhawk" argument is a red herring Frogger and I won't chase it.

I'm not angry, I am disgusted.

"It should also serve as a warning that there is no way that these terrorists can be reasoned with."

And what do you propose; do you think they all can be killed, disarmed, incarcerated or contained by force? There are a lot of them and they "swim among the innocent" as Mao would say.

I personally doubt armies and ordinance and saying "bring it on"will solve the problem. IMO some intelligent evaluation of the root causes and motivation and then efforts to eliminate the same will result in more peace.

Does this really suprise anyone? In alot of cultures, past and present, mentally handicap people are considered inferior and are treated as such. We're pretty darn good to our population of mentally handicap citizens. But not to long ago most of them were sent off to live in mental institutions and ignored by society. My grandmother, rest her soul, worked with the mentally handicap for a long long time, back when alot of people wouldn't admit that someone in the family was afflicted.

So honestly, this does not shock me one bit.

What would that be? Embrace sharia? Cut ties with Israel? Bring democracy and freedom of conscience to the Middle East?

typical neocon tripe. At the risk of namecalling.

Does it really make you guys feel better to have in your brains that "lefties" don't care about stuff like this? I suppose if it give you a warm fuzzy to ascribe heartless tendencies to "lefties" then by all means, knock yourself out. But realize that you're only deluding yourself.

No, you just described your "hatred" one post earlier. Sounds more like anger to me. And then you hatefully hurled insults at some others here. So, either put up or shut up. I'm personally disgusted by the chickenhawks and their bile. I say they should do something about the things that upset them. And I'm disgusted by the terrorists, too, and appreciate our soldiers for their efforts to stop the ba$tards that pull this crap.

Unfortunately, I think you are partially right. I doubt that the evaluation of the root causes will help. We do need to keep up armed pressure to continue to marginalize these movements before they get too large and prevent them from pulling off large scale assaults.

BTW: I agree that "Bring it on" was a dumb thing to say.

Quite the contrary. Seeing the lefties' reaction to this heinous event makes me sad.

I guess I'm an idealist. I figured that everybody here would agree that this was a horrific act, without qualifiers or moral equivalence gymnastics. My bad.

.

To answer your question: Yes, it shocks the ***** out of me. How any thinking human being can be anything but disgusted and angry over this is beyond comprehension. These perpetrators are ******* animals. Innocent people were sacrificed in an abhorrent act of murder. Suicide murderers that know and understand what they are doing get exactly what they deserve. Anyone that would strap an explosive device to an innocent/ignorant individual and detonate it deserves to be boiled in oil. You sympathizers disgust me.

Actually, I was responding to Superman. He said something about my hatred. Notice the question mark in my post. Please do try and keep up Frogger. ;)

Your chickenhawk argument is a bad one. It doesn't serve you well. We have a nation of over 300 million, and a military (all branches) made up of approx 2.8 million (active and reserves). Implying that only those that have served or are serving can have an opinion or get angry about something makes no sense. We have a civilian Commander in Chief. If Mrs. Clinton wins the Presidency, will she be unable to express outrage? Since she never served, can she order people to lay down their lives? Think about the ramifications of that argument.

LOL. Everyone that doesn't think like you is a leftie, Rearden. I hope you can discern what lane to drive your car in when you don't have two-way traffic. I hope you realize your turn signals work both ways, or did you pluck out the bulbs on the left side? Someday, when you grow out of your Bush-fantasy, you'll realize that you've been a foreign policy leftist all these years.

Sure it does. It doesn't serve you well.

you might try some new bait...this doesn't seem to be getting much of a bite. Maybe some salmon eggs or run the motor a little slower while trolling...

I know you are but what am I? What are you, 10 years old? :lol:

Oh, nice to see you ignored the rest of my post on your red herring. Promise me that when Mrs. Clinton sends troops into harm's way, you'll call her a chickenhawk too.

I'm not sure about your age. You seemed very agitated at the beginning of this thread. I guess you could be 10. Your strawman doesn't work for the POTUS and I wouldn't propose using it. My point is, if you're so angry and have so much hatred, why not get your a$$ over to the Middle East and do something about it? At least then we'll have less insults floating around here and potentially you might actually accomplish something.

Using mentally-challenged people as suicide bombers is about the lowest, most discouraging thing I have ever heard in my life. Really. My point was that there are suicide-bombings almost daily in Iraq since we've occupied it and every one of them kills completely innocent people randomly. I've always assumed that disabled people were included in other death tolls. Random bombings of civilians kills dumb/smart/rich/poor/tall/short/etc... :(

That is why this latest news does not phase me, I was against invading Iraq even when it was assumed that it would be handled professionally and over quickly. The reason, among other things, is that in war terrible things happen even when things "go well". And things have not gone well. There is no "Iraq war", by conventional definitions anyways. There is only a long-term occupation of a hostile population by us. Our troops have been asked to do a job that they are not trained or suited for, and as a result they get blown-up on a regular basis with close to zero long-term military benefit to us.

Saddam was awful, but before the U.S. invasion there were no terrorists operating inside of Iraq and no suicide bombings killing innocent civilians. There were other terrible injustices, but it was a peaceful place where westerners could move about freely in no immediate danger. Much of the population was hunched-over cowards under the thumb of Saddam. And guess what? Those same people are still hunched-over cowards under the thumb of insurgent/terrorists now. We've made that country a lot worse, and destabilized the region. Plus really fuched-up life for people who own Chevy Suburbans. Good going there, neocons! :rolleyes:

And she married a pot smoking, draft dodging lying SOB but still professes to love him simply to get ahead in the political world. They are both a "piece of work" but I shudder to see what would happen if she would get her hands on the nuke codes and someone piss her off. Her temper is well known and we might see the first overthrowing of the White House should this happen.

The ends don't justify the means on either side.

And we aren't even getting to the ends. It will be up to the next President to resolve this little peccadillo of the current administration.


And whether you loke the Democrats or not, when they became the majority it shook the coconuts out of the oval office, and got a new response to the Iraq debacle. Over 2 million Iraqis have fled their own country, many of them the best and the brightest. And remember that this is a country of 20 million.

This IMO is the most heinous action ever carried out by a retard, the displacement of 2 million people, and the deaths of many more than most would care to admit. And some of you elected this retard to office, and if that wasn't enough, you re-elected the same cretin for a second term.

You can blame the terrorists, but our actions have created the vaccume that drew them to Iraq. Nice going ! Take a bow.

I'm thinking Obama/Clinton 08. Were either of them last in their class ?

Ya, Bill had his finger on the button a number of times, and he was going to push it too.

But he diddled it instead, sort of like what you are doing here. And the president wasn't a draft dodging pot smoker either, just an AOL, drunken coke head. I really haven't got anything bad to say about his wife, except of course her taste in men is as lousy as your taste in Presidents.

And what has that got to do with the price of tea in China? And who's buying it except for you ?

Uh yes!

You lefties really hate the U.S. huh?

It is incredibly stupid to pretend to know what is in the heart or mind of another human being. Here's a good rule of thumb for political discussions: As soon as you hear someone initiate the "neo-cons" or the "lefties" tag on a huge group...you can pretty much dimiss them as not very bright. Especially when they use the term as the very basis of their argument.

Now don't get me wrong, if someone can identify a specific individual and show some facts or proof of why the term might apply to that individual...in that case it might have merit.

But the generalizations that are often used here very, very seldom are based on facts or proof or identification.

Now, about the crazed terrorists who use reportedly retarded women for the horrific suicide bombing. I find it difficult to believe that ANY American would be happy about it or rejoice or pretend it was justified.

But on the other hand, we do need to ask ourselves why these people would do such inhuman acts. We need to realize that regardless of whether we agree or not...there are few Americans civilians that would be willing to give up their lives for political reasons...any political reasons.

Actually you are partially correct. Cutting ties with Israel instead of backing everything and anything they do might be a very good first step.

Also, backing and supporting despot states such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia would be another.

We need to inform all of the crazies in that misnamed "Holy Land" area that we are stopping all aid as of Monday morning and that we will be basing all of our future actions on only what they DO from this point on.

Another wise thing for us to do is not supply the whole damn area with weapons...as we recently did by providing $20 BILLION in weapons to a host of those nut cases.

How in the hell can we pretend to want and support peace when we are providing the tools of war. It's actually insane if you stop and think about it.

OK, Pelicans. It's quiz time;

What does the first picture have to do with the second?

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1201923899.jpg


Answer: Absolutely nothing!

I share your post 9/11 rage, but we picked a target that had nothing at all to do with 9/11. The perpetrators were Saudis. The mastermind was Saudi. We chased Bin Laden from Afghanistan into Pakistan then inexplicably, WE STOPPED.

Any terrorist bombing is an amoral, reprehensible act. The murder of unsuspecting people with Down syndrome is unthinkable.

Our outrage at terrorism does not justify the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation. Period.
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Yes Mule, you are right on target once again. EVERY citizen of the USA who has ever critisized President Bush or the Iraq war actually "hates" the USA and wants our nation to be overthrown and occupied by...........whomever you choose.

What are you trying to do...confuse Mule and Rearden and their ilk with the facts? Good luck.

When has it been any different in the history of man?:(

Who in the thread sympathized with the terrorists?

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Could not help myself.

Why do we need to ask ourselves? Isn't it obvious? These bombings 1) cause sectarian strife, 2) cause the population to question its faith in the new government, and 3) cause the American people to pressure US politicians to abandon the project.

Why? Because a democratic country in the Middle East whose citizens enjoy freedom of conscience and upward economic mobility is anathema to the jihadist's cause.

So why should any westerner give a fuch if this is the reason al-Queda "does such inhuman acts". Your moral equivalence and search for root causes is sickening.

Why did Jeffrey Dahmer torture, kill, dismember, and eat his victims? What caused him to "do such inhuman acts"? Maybe because he was molested by a neighbor and his mother abandoned him. Does that matter to his victims and their families?

Finally, you say there are few Americans "willing to give up their lives for political reasons". The cowards you attempt to understand didn't give their lives; they remotely took the lives of these innocent girls and the random bystanders.

I don't think of the world as good and evil much. But this is evil. there is no way to excuse this. You can say we invaded them, and killed women and children. And we have. We didn't need to go there. Maybe we didn't. That we could travel another path. Perhaps we should.

But if you can excuse this in any way, your already lost. I don't care what side of the debate you are on.