Ronald Reagan ?

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Nah, you're invested in your dislike of him, I'm not...nor am I an apologist so whle I think your view of Reagan is narrow, I'm not inclined to play your tit for tat..
Sorry.

That's one of the most creative excuses for not answering that I've seen in a long time. I gotta pass that one along to my grandkids for use against their parents.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

You worked part time? Hah, what a pansy. I worked 40+ hours a week to pay for a bio/biochem degree I'll never use.

on Reagan, I have a poorly formed and I'm sure easily knocked down thesis that he is responsible for the beginning of the end of US Manufacturing and destruction of our economy.

By giving illegal aliens amnesty, he gave Business a taste for cheap labor and lower quality standards. A taste that became a hunger in which Business has since been on the hunt for cheaper and cheaper labor no matter the consequences in terms of product quality and quality of jobs in the U.S. And it's this replacement of good paying, high quality manufacturing jobs with lower paying, lower skilled service jobs that has eroded our economy, decreasing tax revenues along the way.

From my perspective, people are living as if they had good, solid lifetime jobs of yesterday and compensating for any delta by going deeper and deeper in debt. and government is following suit.

I would love to see a comparison of per capita tax revenues from the 50s to the present adjusted for everything.

You won't ever get me to say Reagan was a bad president. That said, one could second guess the records of most of the presidents of this country.

FWIW, as far as I am concerned, the illegal worker problem has never been a simple issue....it wasn't then, it's not now. I personally don't think it had much to do with jobs LEAVING. I would blame that trend first on the US car makers making junk cars in the late 70's /early 80's which made consumers start getting accustomed to buying "foreign", followed then by the rest of the world becoming more industrialized. Whether we like it or not, we have a "world economy" now.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

You worked part time? Hah, what a pansy. I worked 40+ hours a week to pay for a bio/biochem degree I'll never use.



By giving illegal aliens amnesty, he gave Business a taste for cheap labor and lower quality standards. A taste that became a hunger in which Business has since been on the hunt for cheaper and cheaper labor no matter the consequences in terms of product quality and quality of jobs in the U.S. .

His biggest mistake, granting amnesty

I too worked to pay for my school, my biggest income was working at the shipyards loading & unloading

[Lothar]

Reagan's greatest failure was his inability to curb spending by dismantling much of the federal government. Had tax cuts been accompanied by wholesale elimination of many government agencies, we might have stemmed the communist tide that has left us where we are today.

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

You won't ever get me to say Reagan was a bad president. That said, one could second guess the records of most of the presidents of this country.

FWIW, as far as I am concerned, the illegal worker problem has never been a simple issue....it wasn't then, it's not now. I personally don't think it had much to do with jobs LEAVING. I would blame that trend first on the US car makers making junk cars in the late 70's /early 80's which made consumers start getting accustomed to buying "foreign", followed then by the rest of the world becoming more industrialized. Whether we like it or not, we have a "world economy" now.

Not sure about your "US car makers" theory. Last year China was by far the biggest taker of American dollars per the trade imbalance and they didn't sell a single car in the USA.

[lendaddy]

Critics always forget that Reagan was working with a Democrat congress. He had to make compromises to get his broad changes in motion.

Just because something came to be during his tenure doesn't mean it was something he wanted.

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by Lothar

Reagan's greatest failure was his inability to curb spending by dismantling much of the federal government. Had tax cuts been accompanied by wholesale elimination of many government agencies, we might have stemmed the communist tide that has left us where we are today.

I must disagree. Reagan's handling of the Lebanon fiasco that ended with 241 USA Marines getting killed and then Reagan backing down had to be the worst. Actually some historians think it might have been the main impetus that got the terrorist thinking that they really did have a way to challenge the USA.

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Critics always forget that Reagan was working with a Democrat congress. He had to make compromises to get his broad changes in motion.

Just because something came to be during his tenure doesn't mean it was something he wanted.

So why then were all (except Paul) the GOP candidates not talking about the great and wonderful "Democrat Congress" that got all those things done during that time? Credit should go both ways.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

You won't ever get me to say Reagan was a bad president.

I've been practicing my waterboarding technique.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by WI wide body

So why then were all (except Paul) the GOP candidates not talking about the great and wonderful "Democrat Congress" that got all those things done during that time? Credit should go both ways.

Yea, the dems wanted those tax cuts so they held Reagans feet to the fire.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by WI wide body

Not sure about your "US car makers" theory. Last year China was by far the biggest taker of American dollars per the trade imbalance and they didn't sell a single car in the USA.

I said that IMO, it started with the cars in the late 70's/early 80's and NOW is due to the world becoming more industrialized.

Point being that I disagree that illegal immigrants were the cause of jobs going overseas like Shaun was suggesting.

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

I said that IMO, it started with the cars in the late 70's/early 80's and NOW is due to the world becoming more industrialized.

Point being that I disagree that illegal immigrants were the cause of jobs going overseas like Shaun was suggesting.

Well, not to split hairs but you also said that the "cars" were the reason for the jobs leaving. My point is that the hundreds of $billions of Chinese goods that are shipped into our nation have to be costing as many jobs as the cars.

So, we can agree that the illegal immigrants do not make cars.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by WI wide body

Well, not to split hairs but you also said that the "cars" were the reason for the jobs leaving. My point is that the hundreds of $billions of Chinese goods that are shipped into our nation have to be costing as many jobs as the cars.

So, we can agree that the illegal immigrants do not make cars.

I only said that cars were the BEGINNING of the change in buying habits. I never said that cars are the problem we presently face.

[vash]

didnt he deem ketchup as a "vegetable", so schools could cut cost? i was very young, but i seem to recall this.

[DARISC]

Reagan was one baaad actor.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by WI wide body

The facts should never bother an "icon" I would think.

Actually Dipso forgot the Savings & Loan scandal and Reagan's immigration mess and what Reagan did per the 241 Marines who were killed in Lebanon. Reagan also initiated the huge deficit spending that now threatens to sink our nation. He also began the stupid "War on Drugs" that endures today.

As for "everyone" being dead...that is not true. Of the reported 144 members of Reagan's admin who where either indicted, charged, confessed, or were convicted of crimes (an all time record) one of them was actually in the current president's administration. So not all of them can be protected by the "dead" card.

Lot's of stuff to "look up" if you and the GOP candidates want to take a shot a at it.

Do you read the stuff you respond to, or did you just see my avatar?

As I said in the post you quoted, oh never mind

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

I only said that cars were the BEGINNING of the change in buying habits. I never said that cars are the problem we presently face.

Actually, BEGINNINING was not in your post. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and we can let the record show that's what ypu meant.

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Do you read the stuff you respond to, or did you just see my avatar?

As I said in the post you quoted, oh never mind

Not sure what you might mean. Here is what you posted:

"It is because he is a Republican icon. Sort of like Kennedy is for the Democrats. We can talk bad about JFK all day long, plenty to talk about, and he is dead, I don't think that is it. None of those other things you mention is both true and a good thing at the same time. Seems to me not everyone who worked for him is dead, haven't some of them written books about his diminished capacity while serving as president, be a good lad and go look that up for me."

That's what I responded to. Read it. Moving too quick for you? "Never mind" might be your best response.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Kurt V

Reagan gave people optimism in the early eighties when there was not much to be optomistic about. Yes he make some mistakes and blunders, but he made you feel good to be an American. He always made you feel like things were going to get better. All you hear from politicians today is nothing but gloom and doom. Which makes us all feel that way.

Kurt? You & I seem to agree more and more these days. I recall one "Reaganism" well. A reporter asked him why he left the Democrat party.
He responded that the Democrat party left him.

Today? With McCain a lock? The Republican party left me. I see no reason to vote come November, other than my hatred of all things Clinton. Hatred is not a good reason to vote.

[gt350mike]

Originally Posted by WI wide body

Not sure about your "US car makers" theory. Last year China was by far the biggest taker of American dollars per the trade imbalance and they didn't sell a single car in the USA.

You can give Walmart most of the credit for that!