Bye bye Cadillac

[Mule]

Red Baron has an Armada. Nicest suv I've ever been in. Pulls the 928 on a trailer like nothing's back there. Ask him if he likes it. But make sure you've got a minute when you do.

[Mule]

And you get a bigger version of this motor, - the turbo.
Turbo Infiniti Q45 doing a run from 0-100 mph. Check out the complete project at TURBO-INFINITI.COM .

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by berettafan

the allante has a bit of a following. don't know about the quality tho.

I've heard that it was a quality control nightmare. Particularly the top, which would never open correctly or seal.

[hytem]

Originally Posted by Don Plumley

I think you mean "Demming." W. Edwards Demming.

Yes, the Japanese embraced quality manufacturing and set the global standard. I remember reading "The Machine that changed the world" and "The Goal" in bschool. In fact, pointing spears at our beloved German manufacturers, I remember a quote about a Mercedes factory that said something to the effect that they had hundreds of white coated "Quality Inspectors" at the end of the line and the guide said, "This demonstrates our commitment to quality - the hundreds of quality inspectors that fix every problem before our car is shipped to customer."; in contrast to the Japanese factory where the assembly line worker was encouraged to "stop the line" to resolve a quality problem before the car went further.

Do you remember Brian Bosworth bragging about working in Detroit and putting a bottle caps between the sheet metal panels to make rattles...

but I digress...back to your regularly schedule program:

Sorry. It's Demming. You're right. Halberstam covers this in one of his books I've read. The Reckoning? I've also seen a video lecture by Demming on the subject. About 20 years ago, American industry suddenly embraced Demming's quality and customer first ideas. But it didn't last for long. He was also against the corporate ratings system which pits one worker against the other on a distribution curve. Industry didn't buy that.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Sadly, Demming first attempted to share his theories with American industry. But our American companies, still riding the wave of prosperity, had no interest in statistics based quality control or people first philosophies. Japan, on the other hand, welcomed him with open arms and embraced his ideas. We all know how that turned out.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Sadly, Demming first attempted to share his theories with American industry. But our American companies, still riding the wave of prosperity, had no interest in statistics based quality control or people first philosophies. Japan, on the other hand, welcomed him with open arms and embraced his ideas. We all know how that turned out.

Demming worked with Ford for a long time. Quality was Job One as you'll recall.

Anyway, the 04 SRX experience wasn't what you'd hoped it would be and, you're right, they got better in subsequent model years.

But carry that wisdom to the Armada and avoid the 2004's if it is financially possible. There are enough 2005 lease returns coming through for the supply/demand equation to work in your favor. Right now you can get $10,000 off MSRP on a new 2008 (you can get base SE 2WD's for under $30K) so used ones need to fall in line. Used 2007 rental-return SE 2WD's or 4WD's are going through auction for $22-24K. Lease-return 2005's bring $16-19K at auction with reasonable miles.

Nissan's chain-driven 385lb-ft 5.6L V8 > Toyota's belt-driven 310lb-ft 4.7L V8

ANY full-size SUV is a buyer's market. Be diligent, have patience, and the right deal on the right truck will surface.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Very true, but the Americans didn't take notice until he helped the Japanese start kicking our as$es. By then it was too late.

We're shooting for an '05, their values line up well with the SRX. I won't turn down an '04 for the right price, the biggest issue they went through was brakes, which was fixed with improved parts. We looked at a base SE '08 for $28,900, but still more than we want to pay. With 4wd and a few options it quickly jumped to $36k, still pretty good. I'd be happy with an '05 SE 4wd with 40k or so, DVD, tow, and Bose would sweeten the deal.

Everyone CLAIMS that full-size SUVs are a buyer's market, but the damned things sure sell quickly. I call on new Autotrader listings that are already sold. Numerous Armadas sold in two days or less. Not to mention they are normally priced over book. Maybe it's a midwest thing, but sales don't seem to have slowed.

[89911]

I picked up my 2002 Sequoia limited for less then $18k. I bought it after it sat on a dealers (not Toyota) for about 3 months after a trade in. This was just as gas prices were spiking a year ago. If you can time the sell with a huge gas price announcement or rapidly inflating prices, you can get a lot of the "panic" sellers that quickly trade it in on a smaller vehicle which this one was. It does get poor gas mileage, but I have a very small commute. I figure the money I saved would take a decade of driving to have an effect. Besides, I'm going to get a sedan this summer.

[JavaBrewer]

Matt, beware any factory DVD system. Me, and nearly every single person I hang with, has had their factory DVD unit crap out. That's a trip to the dealer who usually just replaces the unit under warranty. Once the warranty goes out it could be large $$ to fix. My wife's Land Rover Discovery had the unit replaced twice. Now out of warranty it's not working again and as long as I own it - it will never work again.

I'm just saying I would not narrow the search for a factory DVD truck - there are lots of aftermarket options that make more sense. FWIW.

[onewhippedpuppy]

David, I agree. However, it would be a plus. The factory DVD in the Armada has a small screen anyway, so it's not perfect. If I find one I otherwise like, $500 and a bit of time is all I need. Aftermarket DVD is an easy install in an Armada.

89911, I figured the recent spike in prices would help me out, but no dice. I'm in the same boat as you, our gas guzzling SUV won't get driven all that much, so it won't hurt the wallet too bad. My 30 MPG Saab takes care of my daily commute, the SUV will be for family duties only.

[Red Baron]

We have a '95 Armada LE as my wife's daily driver and my tow vehicle for the racer. Our previous SUV's were a '97 Expedition (good vehicle) and a '00 Tahoe Z71 (POS). There is absolutely no comparing the difference between the Armada to the majority of big SUV's out there in the market today . When we first got the Armada, I used the analogy of the Z71 being a 'covered wagon' when compared to the Armada in all aspects. I know Toyota has finally come out with a REAL suv in the new Sequoia however I've yet to drive one. The previous Sequia is not even the same class as a Armada as a SUV used like an SUV.

I suggest that if you plan to tow or carry heavy loads with your Armada, that you get the LE. It comes standard with the 'Load Leveling' suspension and makes it superior as a tow vehicle to any other SUV on a 1/2 ton platform. Our's did not come with the DVD, so we added the aftermarket DVD and Sattelite radio and got the larger than stock screen, the kids love it.

We have put 47,xxx miles so far on our Armada and have had only one repair issue. A few months back the Airbag warning light came on. It was a sensor in the drivers seat belt system that was replaced under warranty. Other than that, ~0~ issues.