The cost of union labor

[SLO-BOB]

As some of you know, I'm a medical equipment contractor. That means I work for a vendor(s) and install surgical lights and equipment columns among other things. As you might imagine, the equipment is very specific and requires quite a bit of training - none of which the trades have. In past threads I've bemoaned the fact that in some areas that I don't want to mention......

CHICAGO

...the union trades give us a hard time. The plumbers feel they should install the anethesia columns, the electricians the surgical lights, and if it isn't spoken for by one of them, the millwrights want it. They even crowd the guys installing MRIs and Xray equipment. Sometimes the hospital puts it's foot down and tells them to shut up, but other times, like now, the hospital buckles under the pressure for fear of a walk out. While that is at least annoying, there is another factor - Cost.

Here are some extra costs that are a due to union interference. This, of course, filters down to you and I. I'll start small.

-$1250 for cancelled hotel rooms next week. They are blocking us from the job so we have to sit tight while they hash it out. We were starting 3 weeks late because the union refused to allow non union techs on the site.

-Three guys with nothing to do all week - lost wages.

-once it is resolved - and it will be resolved...

-overtime for the 3 guys because we will have to play catch up. That and I want to make it up to them for previous week.

-union wage for a union worker to "hold our hands" while we do the work. They will assign a "shadow" at union labor rate for each crew. Multiply this cost (union labor charge- not wage) 4-6 union guys minimum. Then multiply that figure times three weeks.

-union overtime to match our overtime x 6

Now figure the cost of a 4 week delay of opening a hospital wing with 7 Cath labs and 12 ORs. I'm not sure how much revenue just one OR generates each day, let alone 12! Multiply times 30.

Factor in the insult of "negotiating" with a union rep who acts like a 250 lb five year old except that his vocabulary is, shall we say, more colorful.

Little wonder I factor in a 1.3 multiplier when working that area. It isn't enough - trust me.

So the next time you get a big hospital bill, add your local union to the people you thank.

[robs944]

That's sad to hear.
Unfortunately I can relate to a certain degree, I work at a plant 400+ union (I'm not one of them). I am an IT manager, so if I need a new LAN drop to install PC for new employee-

-Electrician to run cat5
-Carpenter to cut hole in wall and install LAN jack
-Electrician has to come back and terminate cat5 at both ends
-"yardgang" has to move PC equipment and setup

This usually takes at least 3 weeks to get completed, meanwhile the new employee is sitting around admiring the work flow.

Typically I will work late (majority of union has gone home) and do all of this
in a couple of hours. Many of grievance's have been filled against my dept. but if it's not a contract negotiation year then management sides with us.

Gotta love it.

[legion]

1) Try carrying more than a single bottle of water into McCormick Place. See what happens. There are big guys standing at every entrance, and they are not security guards.

2) Maybe Tim will chime in. He can tell stories...

[nota]

so form a med device installers union
and beat them at their own game

the cost of not having unions is a lot higher to the workers

and a few real laws to keep the mob types out would not hurt

[Rearden]

Damn, Bob, that is one sad story. Infuriating. That kind of extortion should be illegal.

[74-911]

Originally Posted by legion

1) Try carrying more than a single bottle of water into McCormick Place. See what happens. There are big guys standing at every entrance, and they are not security guards.

In 1978 I was a systems engineer for EDS and was sent to Chicago (McCormick place) to install a DEC PDP-11 for demo'ing a hospital system at the National Hospital Assoc. convention. To make a long story short, for a boy brought up on a cotton farm in N. TX dealing with the union goons (as we quickly called them but not to their face) was an eye-opening experience to say the least. You even looked like you were going to do anything involving any kind of labor and they were all over you and they weren't exactly polite about it. We had to pay union electricians to sit and watch us hook up the system as we wouldn't let them touch it (and they didn't want to)... and it went downhill from there.

the real picture dawned on me after I went to the union office to get an additional 110V outlet installed and paid a small fortune for it. Walking back to our area with the electrician he more or less told me I just didn't understandthe system, all I had to do was slip him a $20 and he would take care of any additional outlets we needed, no need to bother with the union office .

[Joeaksa]

I used to work in an industry that had trade shows in Chicago every January. What you are mentioning is exactly the reason why it was moved OUT OF CHICAGO to Kansas City.

The labor unions there are absolutely the biggest crooks I have ever seen.

[kach22i]

There is a use, time and place for unions, but that story is not one of them.

This is a silly story; my wife worked at one of the big three, everytime they moved her desk she was not allowed to move her own packing boxes to the new location, even if it was just down the hall or on the floor above. She had to call a union guy, wait for him to show up and then he could complete her move.

They moved her desk every six months................great use of time.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by legion

1) Try carrying more than a single bottle of water into McCormick Place. See what happens. There are big guys standing at every entrance, and they are not security guards.

2) Maybe Tim will chime in. He can tell stories...

I don't even understand what that means. Bottles of water? What's the problem?

Our job is taking a few more twists. In the mean time, I have been allowed to have one worker there to work with an electrician getting things organized until we sort this out. He is not allowed to hold tools, but he can direct the electrician. For now that works because we're just hauling crates and cutting threaded rod - they are welcome to that. However, once the more technical stuff happens we'll probably have issues. I will not train them. They can do basic labor and clean up. If they want to cherry pick tasks they can go to hell.

I understand the issue. I used to be a union electrician - 15 years. Fortunately, I worked in jurisdictions that were a little more flexible. We didn't have these problems and we had good employability. Costs were kept to a minimum and the customers had us because they liked the work, not because they were extorted. I think Chicago wants to have an iron grip on the labor so they scare away potential competition. Imo, that's un American and is a slap in the face of free enterprise and democracy. Because of this type of behavior unions are a dying breed and the upper midwest is one of the last union strongholds. Within a decade I predict that will not be the case because of their mercenary behavior.

It's a shame really because unions were formed to protect the little guy and they did a lot of good for us all. Now they are self sustaining businesses unto their own, motivated by greed and fear and enforced by bullying practices. That can't last.

[legion]

The union guys consider two bottles of water to be a "pallet". Guess who wants A LOT of money for moving those?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by 74-911

In 1978 I was a systems engineer for EDS...

Sorry for the hijack...I know that was a LONG time ago, but how was that experience? I've heard nothing but horror stories over the years and have a career decision to make. PM me if you want to...thanks!

[URY914]

It's little wonder why new auto plants get built in the Alabama, Tenn, S. Carolina and of course Mexico.

[lendaddy]

Yep, it's no mystery why the automakers and other manufactures run from union states like the plague.

If you owned a business would you want to negotiate with those thugs all the time?

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

If you owned a business would you want to negotiate with those thugs all the time?

Update #3 - We're out. They had a change of heart and have decided that no one but their people can do the work. The vendor can suppy "advisors" to direct (train) the union folks. Understandably, the vendor does not want to pay us to stand around. That's about $50 k worth of work gone. Fortunately, we are able to pick up other work in more friendly locals.

To answer your question, which I'm sure was rhetorical, "I would not". I am a (small) business owner and furtheremore, I will not. I won't schedule work in Chicago anymore. Not because I'm upset - I am - but because I can't afford to. I was very lucky to fill my schedule. That doesn't always happen and I will not lose out on opportunities elsewhere.

Now untrained people will be installing sophisticated equipment at triple the price. I would not be surprised if the vendor I contract for rethinks doing business in the area. They will certainly see an actually financial loss on this one. Nice going Chicago union Bros! You win - we (all) lose.

[craigster59]

Do you work for Hillrom or Steris?

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by craigster59

Do you work for Hillrom or Steris?

I don't really want to say who as this is a touchy topic. If I was raving about the amazing cooperation from the union I would be hapy to share more info. I have done work for HillRom, Steris, Stryker, etc., but only on occasion. Same basic stuff though.

How do you know about them?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Love the earlier mention of "free enterprise" in a thread about unions. Riiiiiight.

100 years ago, when working conditions were poor and jobs were scarce, unions were the worker's best friend. Now it's nothing but legalized exortion. The government has strict regulations regarding safety and conduct in the workplace, along with minimum wage laws. Not to mention plenty of jobs available. All the unions are good for is driving companies out of America, or out of business.

[SLO-BOB]

There's been some more back and forth on this matter. There will be a meeting next Monday. My advice to the vendor project manager, i.e. my client was to go to the meeting and ask them how they got the idea that this was a negotiation? He is there to schedule - period. The product was sold with installation included. The only thing he needs to hear from them is when will the way be clear for him to do the work? Other than that we can't help you because your contractor won't let us do the work.

[URY914]

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

I don't really want to say who as this is a touchy topic. If I was raving about the amazing cooperation from the union I would be hapy to share more info. I have done work for HillRom, Steris, Stryker, etc., but only on occasion. Same basic stuff though.

How do you know about them?

I'm a senior PM for a GC doing healthcare work and worked with all three of the listed guys on my last project. Florida is a right to work state, thank God.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

I used to be a union electrician - 15 years. Fortunately, I worked in jurisdictions that were a little more flexible. We didn't have these problems and we had good employability. Costs were kept to a minimum and the customers had us because they liked the work, not because they were extorted.

I imagine you guys are expecting me to comment. As you know, I am very shy but I don't want to deny you the benefit of my input, so here it is.

I have heard of this sort of behavior, particularly in Chicago. I've heard many other stories with similar tones. Not just in Chicago, but that does happen to be where most of the ugliest stories come from. I dunno. Never been to Chicago. I hear the pizza is good there.

In Seattle, our Labor community is like SLO-BOB's description above. Very cooperative. Very helpful to the contracting community. Flexible. You wouldn't want to try to build something large here without them. Not because they would engage in shenanigans. But rather, the unions halls are where you find the guys that can execute contracts of that magnitude. You could use cheap labor, at half the union wage, but the project will almost certainly run over budget and behind schedule.

For small jobs like this, nobody would say "Boo."