Microsoft...WTF?

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by Sapporo Guy

I read that M$ is actually working on a new system
Might be that Vista (errr LongHorn) was really a long stretch into the sakjflskajsf;alfhwuieh ?!?!? have no clue what they were thinking.

The original specs sounded awesome and was actually worried about my beloved OSX but the released product was such a disappointment that I didn't even feel any joy over M$ getting kicked around by Apple

2009 code name "Vienna" but if you don't like Vista you won't like Vienna, it looks and feels the same, has some added features that never made it to Vista. However thanks to an NDA, I can't share what they are.

[Sapporo Guy]

lolo, those are probably features that were dropped from the original LongHorn spec sheet

However, I think that M$ is going to have to come up with something basic instead of feature rich to start gaining trust back after these last few days of net thrashing !

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by Sapporo Guy

lolo, those are probably features that were dropped from the original LongHorn spec sheet

However, I think that M$ is going to have to come up with something basic instead of feature rich to start gaining trust back after these last few days of net thrashing !

I can't confirm, nor deny that

[Porsche-O-Phile]

M$ finds itself in the unenviable and unfamiliar position of playing catch-up to Apple now. This has been a LONG time coming.

Frankly I'm amazed they were allowed to continue making billions of $$$ off the same old formula for years - they'd gussy up the same old packages with superfluous crap that didn't really increase functionality and demand that everyone pony up another $800 (or more) for it. Think about it: my first computer YEARS ago was a PC-AT clone. It ran a word processor, a spreadsheet program and a very limited database program to cross-reference data and pull reports. My 386 PC from high school could browse the internet (albeit slowly). This is all nothing new.

Fundamentally what has really changed on computers? They've gotten faster, but the core applications are really the same as they've been for years, if not decades.

Also, consider that we're all getting double-dipped TWICE - once for software and again for hardware. The "industry leader" makes it a habit of forcing their bloated "upgrades" onto the public-at-large, who must then constantly run out and buy newer, faster, higher memory systems in order to run what are (fundamentally) the same programs - word processors, spreadsheets and web browsers. Amazing that the public has been so willing to let this happen to them.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

M$ finds itself in the unenviable and unfamiliar position of playing catch-up to Apple now. This has been a LONG time coming.

Frankly I'm amazed they were allowed to continue making billions of $$$ off the same old formula for years - they'd gussy up the same old packages with superfluous crap that didn't really increase functionality and demand that everyone pony up another $800 (or more) for it. Think about it: my first computer YEARS ago was a PC-AT clone. It ran a word processor, a spreadsheet program and a very limited database program to cross-reference data and pull reports. My 386 PC from high school could browse the internet (albeit slowly). This is all nothing new.

Fundamentally what has really changed on computers? They've gotten faster, but the core applications are really the same as they've been for years, if not decades.

Also, consider that we're all getting double-dipped TWICE - once for software and again for hardware. The "industry leader" makes it a habit of forcing their bloated "upgrades" onto the public-at-large, who must then constantly run out and buy newer, faster, higher memory systems in order to run what are (fundamentally) the same programs - word processors, spreadsheets and web browsers. Amazing that the public has been so willing to let this happen to them.

Actually no, Vista outsells mac buy quite a sizable margin as well, Apple is still shuffling around the dark when it comes to the enterprise, same story as ten years ago.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-Vista-vs-Mac-OS-X-vs-Linux-for-the-Last-Time-in-2007-75009.shtml

[Porsche-O-Phile]

What I mean is Apple has all the momentum right now, so it seems anyway.

They've ALWAYS had better products.

[SlowToady]

No way! Mac OS didn't even have protected memory until OS X, which is largely based off of NeXTSTEP and the Mach 3.0 microkernel (Apple wrote neither).

Windows has had protected memory since the first version of NT. (And before that, with XENIX, which was kickass.)

Apple hasn't always had better products --the hardware has always been pretty good, but the software, not so much.

The next version of Windows, codenamed 7, is supposed to be much better than Vista. I suspect ScottR might know something about this, but can't confirm nor deny...:-P

In terms of server software, 2008 is going to be quite a change from 2003. I might have to try it out....

Saporro Guy, SUN still has great products and Solaris is still awesome --more awesome than ever. Hardware support is expanding (I'm typing this on a Compaq desktop running Solaris 10), user and system tools and applications keep improving, performance and stability are great....Also, SUN does a LOT for open source software.

MS needn't BUY MS, they've now partnered. You can buy servers from SUN running Solaris, Windows, Linux, with your choice of MySQL (SUN just bought them), PostgreSQL, or Oracle, and you also get your choice of UltraSPARC, AMD, or Intel. SUN is in a real position to KICK ASS if they don't drop the ball.

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

What I mean is Apple has all the momentum right now, so it seems anyway.

They've ALWAYS had better products.

[JavaBrewer]

We purchased a Sony laptop for my 72 yr old Mother-in-law a couple months ago. I bumped RAM from 1 GB to 2 GB, removed all the trial software, loaded up AVG anti-virus and OpenOffice. All she does is gmail, internet, and simple documents. I was expecting the worst - crashes and unexplained errors but to be honest the Vista box has been stellar. Unpacked it, started it up, and after 30 minutes or so of initial loading & configuration it was up and running - found my wireless nextwork instantly. YMMV.

For now I'm sticking with XP but for home use Vista looks pretty nice, especially if I can get a new box for $400 or so.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by dmoolenaar

We purchased a Sony laptop for my 72 yr old Mother-in-law a couple months ago. I bumped RAM from 1 GB to 2 GB, removed all the trial software, loaded up AVG anti-virus and OpenOffice. All she does is gmail, internet, and simple documents. I was expecting the worst - crashes and unexplained errors but to be honest the Vista box has been stellar. Unpacked it, started it up, and after 30 minutes or so of initial loading & configuration it was up and running - found my wireless nextwork instantly. YMMV.

For now I'm sticking with XP but for home use Vista looks pretty nice, especially if I can get a new box for $400 or so.

You know with the above mentioned requirements you could easily get away with a free Linux distro.

[Seric]

Originally Posted by Scott R

2009 code name "Vienna" but if you don't like Vista you won't like Vienna, it looks and feels the same, has some added features that never made it to Vista. However thanks to an NDA, I can't share what they are.

It's just called Win7 now. I think Vienna got dropped, at least I haven't seen that name associated with it in the test builds. At one time it was called Veranda or some crap.

[dd74]

My question always has been and always will be: "How much garbage do these OSes (Mac included) need?" I barely use any of the widgets, gadgets, Gidgets and other stuff.

Simplicity, at least at the interface, is why I've always liked Linux - though maybe Linux is as well more complicated these days.

[Sapporo Guy]

SlowToaddy is right but ...
OS 7.2.3 was pretty decent and then all after up to 8.6 (which was half way decent) then up to OSX 10.1 ... basically 3 steps that were good in between were very iffy ....

2000 and OSX cleared up a lot of problems for both companies.
I still love how XP and Office just decides to kill off Office for me

However, I still tend to think that Apple made the better user product. M$ is stuck with slap-dash companies producing oodles of software but ... end experience being that ... oodles of software. Apple and their authoritarian approach has helped to keep a pretty even experience, albiet marketing mishaps and what not in the past.

I tend to think that Jobso is NextStep and Apple But, yes, NextStep was even a buy out by Jobso. Loved what he did to pixar though

Jobs is getting it pretty close to right this time around.

Ahhhh, enterprise ... run by the IT departments who are staffed by M$ people. The comfort zone can be good at times but you miss out on a lot of oppourtunities. Which is why I think the iPhone is the pandora's box for them.

SUN ... I keep watching them to see what they will do. They had the bull the horns so many times ... and like Jobso of the past ... seem to find a way to miss out on the big time adventures. Can they finally do it this time around? Problem is that I really don't what their focus is ???? In the early years I wanted a SUN workstation soooooo bad

MS being partnered with SUN is like sleeping with your ex

I like underdogs and I really hope that Apple and Sun will teach something to M$.

[Sapporo Guy]

Widgets, Gadgets, Gigets are just a way to say that we have now added "300" new functions to our OS

I love the way Apple counts things that they have added to the core system. Jeeez a lot is just basically shoring up their system, end user could give a cr@p about 280 of those listed items ...

[Paul_Heery]

FWIW, I bought my 90-year-old mother an Acer laptop. It cost $395 and the specs are not great, but it came with Vista Home Basic. I tried it when I first started up the system and it was painful. However, the plan was to never keep Vista. I reformatted the hard drive and installed Ubuntu. My mother loves it, much more than the XP machine that was replaced.

BTW, I've been running PC-BSD for some time now and find it to be a very capable and secure OS.

[JavaBrewer]

If Vista ever craps out then I'll load up Ubuntu. For now she's happy and so am I - zero trouble complaints

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by Seric

It's just called Win7 now. I think Vienna got dropped, at least I haven't seen that name associated with it in the test builds. At one time it was called Veranda or some crap.

Yea, at the dev conference in Cali they said that they were going to be using "mountains" now as code names exclusively. I doubt they stay with "7" for very long either.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by Sapporo Guy

SlowToaddy is right but ...
OS 7.2.3 was pretty decent and then all after up to 8.6 (which was half way decent) then up to OSX 10.1 ... basically 3 steps that were good in between were very iffy ....

2000 and OSX cleared up a lot of problems for both companies.
I still love how XP and Office just decides to kill off Office for me

However, I still tend to think that Apple made the better user product. M$ is stuck with slap-dash companies producing oodles of software but ... end experience being that ... oodles of software. Apple and their authoritarian approach has helped to keep a pretty even experience, albiet marketing mishaps and what not in the past.

I tend to think that Jobso is NextStep and Apple But, yes, NextStep was even a buy out by Jobso. Loved what he did to pixar though

Jobs is getting it pretty close to right this time around.

Ahhhh, enterprise ... run by the IT departments who are staffed by M$ people. The comfort zone can be good at times but you miss out on a lot of oppourtunities. Which is why I think the iPhone is the pandora's box for them.

SUN ... I keep watching them to see what they will do. They had the bull the horns so many times ... and like Jobso of the past ... seem to find a way to miss out on the big time adventures. Can they finally do it this time around? Problem is that I really don't what their focus is ???? In the early years I wanted a SUN workstation soooooo bad

MS being partnered with SUN is like sleeping with your ex

I like underdogs and I really hope that Apple and Sun will teach something to M$.

Actually most are run by linux/windows admins, and we would embrace MAC in a heartbeat, they however don't embrace us. They have no systems for mass OS deployment, and are not supported by Opsware, Landesk Altiris or the other biggies. The patch systems is laughable at best, and little thing like drive encryption and ldap policy integration are completely foreign.

They should spend less time on pretty little cases and get serious, or just continue to be niche.

[stealthn]

ALRIGHT! a chance to slam microsoft again, oh...wait...they did it to themselves...

I don't know I think they have been putting out really poor software since Windows 3.0. I tried a few years ago to start a following to demand they stop producing software and fix the software already on the market. Yeah that didn't do squat, they still kept pumping out the crap, forcing PC makers to ship with their poor software, telling businesses it's Microsoft we're the only game in town. (Try being a Netware guru and seeing people changing because "it's what all the other companies have" even though from a technical level Netware was excellent)

I agree everything is half baked and you need a real SQL server, premium edition, IIS only, AD, Active-X, internet Explorer, xyz system to use ALL the featuress of the software.

Although I do see this "attitude" coming from other vendors now too; Symantec when questioned about why their EndPoint Protection is growing so large on the C: drive, and what we can do about it; "well you could always put it on a SQL server" - Yeah I'll by a SQL server to support your AV engine for 10 people....(best Dr. Evil)..riiiight.


Oh yeah and I still have an SE/30 that works fine and does what it's suppose to

[rammstein]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

What I mean is Apple has all the momentum right now, so it seems anyway.

They've ALWAYS had better products.

Ummm.... I'm not remotely close to an expert, but did you ever use the abomination known as MacOS 8?

Of course, there's always the Microsoft Abomination "Windows Millenium", which actually caused be to 'fix' things with a sledgehammer. It was the most liberating experience of my life since losing my virginity.

XP Pro is on my PC. Everything works. I will NEVER replace it.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

LOL!

Can't say I had the (dis)pleasure of either Windows ME or OS8. I do have way more time logged screwing around with windows 98 systems than I'll ever want to admit to, however.