Is Terrorism That Big A Problem?

[djmcmath]

Let's set aside the insults and dodging for a moment and get back to the question: is terrorism a problem?

I think that Mule answered a different question, which was: Is fundamental Islam a problem? The answer is clearly "yes." I'm sure that even the most stubborn amongst us agree that the situation in France is bad, and that the situation here is likely to follow if we don't stand up. Islam is basically forming their own isolated pockets of The Land of Islam in other countries. They ignore the laws of the host country and are basically independent mini-countries. This is serious.

The really terrifying part to me is not that they're doing all of this, but that nobody seems to care. The few who raise the alarm are rejected as whiners and extremists, or racist, or whatever else. I'd say, "Wait and see, you'll see how wrong you are," except that by then it will be too late for all of us. You think that Bush is running a theocracy? Can you imagine a world where Sharia law is respected everywhere?

The tool behind this is not large scale terrorism. They don't need truck bombs and IEDs to build these little pockets of Islam. It's small scale terror -- like taking the kippas from their Jewish neighbors. Eventually, after enough small scale terror, a neighborhood becomes unpleasant for anyone but the perpetrators. France has given in to these, and we will too. There are already places in this country where the call to prayer can be heard several times a day, and where it's more common to see women in bourkas than in jeans.

The end state on this is not a collection of isolated mini-states, of course. I think all of you already know this -- they don't want little isolated pockets of Islam. They want the whole world to be subject to Islam. They teach complete allegiance to Islam, even over allegiance to your own country. When it comes down to it, these people will use whatever means are called for by their imams to achieve their goals. We will have already let them into our country wholesale and will have encouraged their religious isolationism by our tolerance and encouragement of diversity. I'm not sure how this will go -- they may be able to quietly take over our schools and slowly indoctrinate a new generation. Or perhaps they'll make rocket attacks and suicide bombers from their isolated pockets. What I know is that they will not be satisfied until all of us follow their religious laws.

Is terrorism a problem? Yes, it certainly is. Is fundamental Islam a problem? Oh, absolutely.

Supe's question about Iraq is another good point. I think we've done a great thing over there. I'm sure that Saddam Hussein supported AQ, and was quite pleased to be allied with AQ on 9/11. Did it actually help the situation with fundamental Islam? Well ... probably not. We've probably reduced the number of terrorist attacks on our own soil, but that's impossible to prove. We have certainly not made any friends, and we haven't reduced the incidence of fundamental Islam in this country.


Dan

[Mule]

It's a little hard to have real exchanges with the lefties. They have significant problems dealing with facts and know in their hearts that America is wrong, first, last and always. The accomplishments to improve Iraq go unaddressable. Although I consider that approach wrong, they are accomplishments, none the less. RPKESQ can tell himself that France is great & the muslims aren't a major problem, but we all know that's fantasy. Political correctness may end up being responsible for more deaths in Europe than the plague.

[island911]

Originally Posted by speeder

The only person or group that Bush has made safer with his mismanaged and illegal war in Iraq is OBL and AQ. They have never had a better friend than Bush, and OBL has never been this safe since he began his terrorism against the west.

Wow, that is some serious crazy-talk. OBL doesn't even make video's much anymore. (loved the "Just for men"/fake beard he was sport'n in his last vid'.) OBL is hardly the poster child for 'safe.'

I wonder how much plastic Sx OBL has had. ..did he have laser removal of that bullseye on his big nose?

"never been this safe" Yeah, good one. Even Bill Clinton is laughing.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Mule

It's a little hard to have real exchanges with the lefties. They have significant problems dealing with facts and know in their hearts that America is wrong, first, last and always. The accomplishments to improve Iraq go unaddressable. Although I consider that approach wrong, they are accomplishments, none the less. RPKESQ can tell himself that France is great & the muslims aren't a major problem, but we all know that's fantasy. Political correctness may end up being responsible for more deaths in Europe than the plague.

Well of course it’s hard to have an intelligent conversation when Bushies ignore all the facts. The fact that you can see this only in black and white, without shades of gray, illustrates perfectly the limitations of your critical thinking abilities.

I have never said America is always wrong, that is a bald face lie. But that is what I expected from you. Have you and the other Bush nitwits tried to do any research before stating your claims? Really? Obviously not.

I noticed you and the other Bushies could not refute any of the statements I posted about France, so you just try to ignore what doesn’t fit into your narrow mindset. That’s so very typical of Bushies.

First, Frances birthrate is not mostly dependant on the North African immigrants. They are only aprox. 15% to 20% of the total population. Also France has not allowed the illegal immigration that has screwed the US so badly. The riots in France are totally socio-economic based on racism. Any study that uses more than Ann Coulter for a reference will bear that out. You don’t want to believe that, because it would show how your 2 dimensional thinking is wrong. And we can’t have that. Hell, if you go down that road, there is no telling where you might end up. No, much better to hide behind the lie, just like Bush.

You blindly dismiss what other cultures have given the world (not just France); just to prop up your infantile thinking that America must be the best at everything. How very sad. And how very false. Your understanding of other countries and cultures is minimal at best. And your abilities to understand history is nil.

As for political correctness, you will not find much of that in France (or other European countries, did the US republish the cartoons of the Phrophet? No? I did not think so). France has not allowed Muslims or any other religion to hold sway in any public institution. Not in the schools, politics or medicine. France tried to prevent racism, unlike the US, by never having a single racist law on the books (unlike the Jim Crow laws in the US). In France there is no legal recording of race or ethnicity anywhere since Napoleons time.

But humans are naturally racist. This is something that must be overcome by effort and intelligence. The very things you Bushies refuse to apply to this discussion. France has its problems, as do other countries. To deny the problems in your own country is not very bright. America likes to think it should have the world by the tail, when it fact it is chasing its own tail in many areas.

Back to the original question, Is terrorism that big of a problem? Well because of Americas actions it has grown. But the vast majority (99.9999%) of people will never suffer injury or death by terrorism. There are more important things. But your limited world view won't permit you to see them. What a shame.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Well of course it’s hard to have an intelligent conversation when Bushies ignore all the facts. The fact that you can see this only in black and white, without shades of gray, illustrates perfectly the limitations of your critical thinking abilities.

Actually, I was thinking something similar. I would give props to France for (in this case) ignoring their lefties & going forward with their nuke program. US should do the same.

I have never said America is always wrong, that is a bald face lie. But that is what I expected from you. Have you and the other Bush nitwits tried to do any research before stating your claims? Really? Obviously not.

I noticed you and the other Bushies could not refute any of the statements I posted about France, so you just try to ignore what doesn’t fit into your narrow mindset. That’s so very typical of Bushies.

If next time you read my posts before you reply, you'll look smarter. First, no Bush apologist here. I voted for him, twice, & would again against the same 2 moronic candidates. I have been extremely critical of Bush. But just as you are probably right once in a great while, so is Bush. He's not wrong on everything.

First, Frances birthrate is not mostly dependant on the North African immigrants. They are only aprox. 15% to 20% of the total population. Also France has not allowed the illegal immigration that has screwed the US so badly. The riots in France are totally socio-economic based on racism. Any study that uses more than Ann Coulter for a reference will bear that out. You don’t want to believe that, because it would show how your 2 dimensional thinking is wrong. And we can’t have that. Hell, if you go down that road, there is no telling where you might end up. No, much better to hide behind the lie, just like Bush.

I could post 100 links like those below, but I think those should get the point across. Your statement is akin to saying the Rodney King riots were not racially motivated. You can say all you want that the muslims are rioting over economic issues, it won't make it true.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1513137/posts
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4405620.stm
http://politicscentral.com/2006/10/25/france_prepares_50000_riot_pol.php
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/003106.html

You blindly dismiss what other cultures have given the world (not just France); just to prop up your infantile thinking that America must be the best at everything. How very sad. And how very false. Your understanding of other countries and cultures is minimal at best. And your abilities to understand history is nil.

Where did I do any of that? Calm down Dude.

As for political correctness, you will not find much of that in France (or other European countries, did the US republish the cartoons of the Phrophet? No? I did not think so). France has not allowed Muslims or any other religion to hold sway in any public institution. Not in the schools, politics or medicine. France tried to prevent racism, unlike the US, by never having a single racist law on the books (unlike the Jim Crow laws in the US). In France there is no legal recording of race or ethnicity anywhere since Napoleons time.

Before you get too far gone, even with all that wonderment, see if this phrase rings a bell "let them eat cake?" While we're talking history, see if you can recall who saved their asses from hitler? So you are cool with burka pics on DL, a little sharia law?

But humans are naturally racist. This is something that must be overcome by effort and intelligence. The very things you Bushies refuse to apply to this discussion. France has its problems, as do other countries. To deny the problems in your own country is not very bright. America likes to think it should have the world by the tail, when it fact it is chasing its own tail in many areas.

To try & spin this into a race issue with me will not work. It is a religious issue & regardless how many foolish attempts you make to say otherwise, the whole civilized world (including me), knows this is so. Sorry!

Back to the original question, Is terrorism that big of a problem? Well because of Americas actions it has grown.

Do you go to Amsterdam to get what you're smoking or is quality that good on France? "French authorities are keeping a force of some 50,000 riot police in permanent stand-by." Apparently the folks in charge of that little heaven on earth do not concur with you. Are those peace lovers enraged because of the USA?

But the vast majority (99.9999%) of people will never suffer injury or death by terrorism. There are more important things. But your limited world view won't permit you to see them. What a shame.

Can you tell me how that 99.99999% number was arrived at? I know you pulled it out of your ass but I'd like to see how good a story you can contrive.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by island911

Wow, that is some serious crazy-talk. OBL doesn't even make video's much anymore. (loved the "Just for men"/fake beard he was sport'n in his last vid'.) OBL is hardly the poster child for 'safe.'

I wonder how much plastic Sx OBL has had. ..did he have laser removal of that bullseye on his big nose?

"never been this safe" Yeah, good one. Even Bill Clinton is laughing.

Clinton isn't laughing. No one is laughing but you. From the time that OBL began his campaign of terrorism against the west, things have never gone better for him than now. He hatched 9/11 with a level of success that that terrorists previously could only dream about, and no one has been seriously hunting him down for the last ~6 years. Bush "doesn't really think about him..."

Then the brilliant U.S. govt. invades Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11 and gets bogged-down for 5 years and counting, destroying the U.S. economy as a result w/ record-setting deficits and a plunging dollar that drives oil prices through the roof. (The invasion/occupation of Iraq is the other fist to cheap oil).

We will not be able to fight any significant war in the near future as a result. WTF are we going to do? Pay the soldiers in Walmart coupons? Buy Chinese tanks w/ zero-down 30 month leases and promise to keep the miles under the limit??

If you are OBL, you could not make up this schit 7 years ago. He's never had such a dim-witted, unwilling ally as GWB and his minions like you. The big winners in the last 7 years have been big oil, private contractors to the U.S. govt. in Iraq, and OBL. A lot of the losers are so stupid that they will not realise it until someone takes their sneakers away.

[Mule]

Here's 7000 of 'em not grinning:
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,20840551-5003402,00.html

[fintstone]

Bin Laden built his terrorist network and his influence uninhibited throughout the Clinton administration. Things wre sertainly better for him during that period...he had his own country (Afghanistan) where he operated as a quazi-governmental entity. He lived in a house, held press conferences denouncing the west and was a virtual roick star among the radical islamists. Now he is in hiding...probably lives in a cave...and anyone he has dealt with in the past is likely dead or in prison. Sure...he has it real good. LOL.

We are not "bogged down" in Iraq. The war has had little effect on the economy...dollars spent as a percentage of GDP is near peacetime levels...and anyone thinking that is the cause of any current economic problems just doesn't understand economics.

As far as being unable to fight a future war...why would we not be able to? Why would pay soldiers with Walmart coupons...why not justy pay them the way we do now...the way we did in the Clinton administration or any other? We are spending about the same percenatge of GDP on defense as we have in the past.

GW has destroyed OBL. His period of influence really ended when we finally elected a president with enough vision and nerve to put a stop to his crap.

[RPKESQ]

[QUOTE=Mule][If next time you read my posts before you reply, you'll look smarter. First, no Bush apologist here. I voted for him, twice, & would again against the same 2 moronic candidates. I have been extremely critical of Bush. But just as you are probably right once in a great while, so is Bush. He's not wrong on everything. [QUOTE]

Next time, if you read my posts you would understand I was responding to several posters, not just you.

[QUOTE=Mule][I could post 100 links like those below, but I think those should get the point across. Your statement is akin to saying the Rodney King riots were not racially motivated. You can say all you want that the muslims are rioting over economic issues, it won't make it true.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1513137/posts
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4405620.stm
http://politicscentral.com/2006/10/2...0_riot_pol.php
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/003106.html

To try & spin this into a race issue with me will not work. It is a religious issue & regardless how many foolish attempts you make to say otherwise, the whole civilized world (including me), knows this is so. Sorry! [QUOTE]

You could post a 1000, but you would still be wrong. Have you read these? One of them isn’t about France at all. Two of them do not state that religion is the cause of the riots in France. And the last one is a rightwing diatribe. Wow, impressive research! Don’t quit your day job.

Please note: I was discussing the riots in France (not elsewhere). They are all from poor neighborhoods where jobs are very scarce, due to the racism that exists in France. Even you, with your diminished capacity to read and use logic, should remember the riots in many US cities. All based on socio-economic issues. It is the same in France. No one in France is seriously blaming religion for this unrest.

Ranting that religion is the cause is a sure sign you have very little knowledge about France. And probably about most places.


[QUOTE=Mule][Can you tell me how that 99.99999% number was arrived at? I know you pulled it out of your ass but I'd like to see how good a story you can contrive. [QUOTE]

World population as of this morning: 6,795,942,795
Source: www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop

Deaths due to terrorism in 2001: 3295 highest in the last 50 years.
Source: U.S. State Department
Deaths due to terrorism in 2004: 307
Source: U.S. State Department

Try to pull your head out of your ass and do the math.

[beepbeep]

French riots were mostly socio-economic. While those problem might thrive in areas populated by middle-eastern imigrants, they are partly caused by clash between french and immigrant mentality. Those riots had little to do with fundamentalist attacks done at 9/11 etc.

It's a bit sad to read all these "we saved you from Hitler" comments. You didn't save anybody. Your grandad and my grandad maybe did. Otherwise, you could pull this historical debt backwards arbitrary amount of time. At certain point of time, there is always somebody who saved somebody's ass.

[fintstone]

It doesn't really matter id the muslims were rioting in France because they are muslims or because they are poor...the cars still burn the same and the sentiment is still the same. They are really torked off at nonmuslims...enough to destroy the very society that one would expect for them to embrace as voluntary immigrants. Either the immigrants really suck or France realllys sucks...or both. The same this has happend in other placxes in Europe. I imagine that the recent fatwahs and murders of folks that slighted Mohammed in Europe (books, cartoons, films, etc) were due to socioeconomics too...not because of religion.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by fintstone

It doesn't really matter id the muslims were rioting in France because they are muslims or because they are poor...the cars still burn the same and the sentiment is still the same. They are really torked off at nonmuslims...enough to destroy the very society that one would expect for them to embrace as voluntary immigrants. Either the immigrants really suck or France realllys sucks...or both. The same this has happend in other placxes in Europe. I imagine that the recent fatwahs and murders of folks that slighted Mohammed in Europe (books, cartoons, films, etc) were due to socioeconomics too...not because of religion.

When was the last time you were in Europe? I believe your vision of forementioned problems is somewhat skewed.

Sky is not falling. Far from it.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by fintstone

It doesn't really matter id the muslims were rioting in France because they are muslims or because they are poor...the cars still burn the same and the sentiment is still the same. They are really torked off at nonmuslims...enough to destroy the very society that one would expect for them to embrace as voluntary immigrants. Either the immigrants really suck or France realllys sucks...or both. The same this has happend in other placxes in Europe. I imagine that the recent fatwahs and murders of folks that slighted Mohammed in Europe (books, cartoons, films, etc) were due to socioeconomics too...not because of religion.

This is the silliest collection of comments you have ever posted. Your logic is non existing, but your religious bigotry is enormous. Only exceeded by you complete lack of knowledge about Europe (and as a Bush supporter you already have shown your complete lack of understanding about the Middle East). Congratulations for winning the missing village idiot award, again.

[Mule]

So not only do you have the only clear picture of the situation in Eurabia, you have the only clear picture of the middle east as well. The entire rest of the world, including all the major news agencies (bbc & npr included) are just too stupid to get it. You might as well be arguing that the sky is orange. Say it as much as you want & as loud as you want, you're still wrong.

Here is a list of 1,070,000 idiots that think muslims are a problem in Eurabia. To bad they don't have the benefit of your clear reasoning!

[Mule]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

French riots were mostly socio-economic. While those problem might thrive in areas populated by middle-eastern imigrants, they are partly caused by clash between french and immigrant mentality. Those riots had little to do with fundamentalist attacks done at 9/11 etc.

It's a bit sad to read all these "we saved you from Hitler" comments. You didn't save anybody. Your grandad and my grandad maybe did. Otherwise, you could pull this historical debt backwards arbitrary amount of time. At certain point of time, there is always somebody who saved somebody's ass.

We being America. As much as you may hate to admit it, without the might of the US military, "all ya'll" would be goose stepping.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Mule

We being America. As much as you may hate to admit it, without the might of the US military, "all ya'll" would be goose stepping.

Well then let's be fair. Without France all you people would still be singing "God Save the King".

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Mule

So not only do you have the only clear picture of the situation in Eurabia, you have the only clear picture of the middle east as well. The entire rest of the world, including all the major news agencies (bbc & npr included) are just too stupid to get it. You might as well be arguing that the sky is orange. Say it as much as you want & as loud as you want, you're still wrong.

Here is a list of 1,070,000 idiots that think muslims are a problem in Eurabia. To bad they don't have the benefit of your clear reasoning!

Most of the world's news agencies are not in support of Americas actions in the Middle East. Nor do they think the riots in France are religious based. Only the right-wingnut press believe that. But keep on trying to spread this manure, after all it what you do best.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

When was the last time you were in Europe? I believe your vision of forementioned problems is somewhat skewed.

Sky is not falling. Far from it.

I spent quite a few years in Europe serving my country....helping protect our European allies from the Soviet menace. Apparently my view is no less skewed than your view of the USA, yet you feel free to comment. When was the last time you were in the USA...or Iraq?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

This is the silliest collection of comments you have ever posted. Your logic is non existing, but your religious bigotry is enormous. Only exceeded by you complete lack of knowledge about Europe (and as a Bush supporter you already have shown your complete lack of understanding about the Middle East). Congratulations for winning the missing village idiot award, again.

Obviously the word bigot must mean something different in french....or you are just confused. The name-calling is just sad.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I spent quite a few years in Europe serving my country....helping protect our European allies from the Soviet menace. Apparently my view is no less skewed than your view of the USA, yet you feel free to comment. When was the last time you were in the USA...or Iraq?

I spend about half the year in the US. And I have been to Iraq several times. Last month for two weeks, does that count?

But keep on believing that you're right. Its the easiest thing to do, because it doesn't take any thinking at all.