Ancient boat kite sail?

[kach22i]

I've just discovered that the "kite" method may not be "new age" but before 2000BC!

Check this out.

Mysterious Stern Appendage
http://www.worldwideflood.com/ark/hull_form/ancient_hull_form.htm

Compared to ancient construction in stone, we know relatively little about ancient ships, especially anything prior to 2000 B.C.

A fish symbol appears to be mounted on a pivot at the top of the prow, perhaps acting as a wind vane to detect wind direction relative to the vessel.

Looks more like a kite to me, how about you?

What do you see?

I see a BOW Appendage for kite drive.

Video of a modern kite sail in action:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/766538/kiteboat_hawaii/

http://willienelsonpri.com/peace/370/a-peaceful-solution-dan-tracy.html

[Noah930]

What if the guy was only drawing a fish in the water, and it's just his crappy drawing skills that make it look like it's connected to the boat?

[BlueSkyJaunte]

I think the fish is peeing on the boat.

Perhaps it is an art critic.

[Normy]

WELL, I owned an 18 foot open-cockpit day sailer called a "Rhodes 19 with a transom", a Sli-Breeze from Sweden....


yes, arms aching frome the load as we put it in the car!h

[kach22i]

Watch the video, that's no fish in the drawing. Think of it like the Chinese making kites which looked like dragons. A boat with a fish kite.

The bow prowl kind of acts like the rod in the rod & reel in the video. In this ancient boat a crew member could scale the bow apendage and untangle the kite if needed. This design would be less likely in allowing the kite to touch the water and get wet. No synethic cloth back then, they would want to keep the cotton or silk dry at all cost.

When the archeologist and historians moved over and let mechanical engineers look at Leonardo DaVinci's drawings there was a massive change in interpretation. They then went and tried to build some of these inventions and the results and interpretations were once again different.

[HardDrive]

I see Jessica Alba lying on a bed naked, but I've had a lot of coffee this morning.....

[kach22i]

Thanks for all the help guys.

I'm serious, I get into this stuff.

No history buffs here?

How about technology buffs?

A few years ago I designed a logo for a friend getting into the import business. He wanted to include an ancient Greek sailing ship into it. I never quite figured out the purpose of the stern fin, was it decorative only, or did it serve a purpose?



Answering this may help in answering questions about even older boats and ships.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by kach22i

A few years ago I designed a logo for a friend getting into the import business. He wanted to include an ancient Greek sailing ship into it. I never quite figured out the purpose of the stern fin, was it decorative only, or did it serve a purpose?

Perhaps an inverted jib?

[nota]

the boat in the picture is a warship not a trader
ram bow and lots of rowers
I think they put the fancy end bits on
because everybody else did

trading boats didnot have the fancy end bits or rams
or big crews= lots of oars
as both cost alot

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by nota

the boat in the picture is a warship not a trader
ram bow and lots of rowers
I think they put the fancy end bits on
because everybody else did

trading boats didnot have the fancy end bits or rams
or big crews= lots of oars
as both cost alot

I think that sometimes boats had to serve both functions (war & trade) to ward off priates. But it is correct that they are divided into these two classes.

The author of the first website assumes some things which are not "mainstream" to begin with.

For example:
http://www.worldwideflood.com/ark/hull_form/ancient_hull_form.htm

With Noah's three sons steeped in marine technology, the emergence of a shipbuilding industry soon after the Flood should come as no surprise.

He assumes the bible story and or the similar stories before it of a great flood are true and that only a small number of worthy people survived.

About the logo:
Ancient Greek Trireme
http://www.richeast.org/htwm/Greeks/kapost/ship.html

The triremes were built for short, close in, battles. They were not made to handle long, open ocean campaigns. However, the triremes were very fast and maneuverable which gave them a critical advantage in the close-in battles that were typical of ancient naval engagements.

The Trireme was chosen for the trade/import business because it's a symbol of POWER, Greek power it it's heyday. Naval power meant the ability to control trade power just as it does today with the US fleet in the Persian Gulf.

This is intersting regarding the bow prow:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Navis.html
[IMG]http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/Images/Gazetteer/Periods/Greek/Topics/Transportation/sea/biremes/1*.gif[/IMG]

[nota]

aplustre

from your link

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Navis.html

''the upper part of the stern frequently has an elegant ornament called aplustre, and in Greek ἄφλαστον, which constituted the highest part of the poop. It formed a corresponding ornament to the ἀκροστόλιον at the prow. At the junction of the aplustre with the stern on which it was based, we commonly observe an ornament resembling a circular shield: this was called ἀσπιδεῖον or ἀσπιδίσκη. It is seen on the two aplustria here represented (cf. Apollon. Rhod. I.1089, II.601; Apollod. I.9 §22; Hom Il. XV.716; Herod. VI.114). The aplustre rose immediately behind the gubernator, and served in some degree to protect him from wind and rain. Sometimes there appears, besides the aplustre, a pole, to which a fillet or pennon (ταινία) was attached, which served both to distinguish and adorn the vessel, and also to show the direction of the wind. In the column of Trajan, a lantern is suspended from the aplustre so as to hang over the deck before the helmsman''

''the aplustre commonly consisted of thin planks, and presented a broad surface to the sky. In consequence of its conspicuous place and beautiful form, the aplustre was often taken as the emblem of maritime affairs: it was carried off in triumph by the victor in a naval engagement (Juven. X.135), and Neptune is sometimes represented on medals holding the aplustre in his right hand, as in the annexed woodcut; and in the celebrated Apotheosis of Homer, now in the British Museum, the female personating the Odyssey exhibits the same emblem in reference to the voyages of Odysseus.''

[kach22i]

The Greek ship is too far removed for the sail discussion, although it's very interesting as well.

A Phoenician Bireme...........much closer to the main topic and much older too.

Link to image:
http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/19300/19323/bireme_19323.htm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicians

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http://www.catshaman.com/15Sailors/05sailors12.htm
Cycladic ships


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http://www.catshaman.com/15Sailors/05sailors1.htm

After his research Bjoern Landstroem made this drawing of a goat ship.

http://www.catshaman.com/15Sailors/05sailors1.htm

Evidence of three seasons in 4th millennium Naqada.