Opinions/ideas about Alcoholics anonymous

[scottmandue]

Disclaimers:
1. From my first hand experience Alcoholics anonymous is a fine and honorable organization providing a valuable service for it's members.

2. I have lost my brother and a very close friend to complications due to drug and alcoholic addiction.

3. I in no way wish to minimize people with addictive behavior or any way the seek and find help with their problem.

Having said that, I have been dating a lady who is a hard core AA'er. I never drink when I am with her and I have read their book and even gone to meetings with her. Well, it has come down to not drinking when with her isn't enough... she now wants me to get a "program", go to meetings on my own, and get a "sponsor". Yeah, I should have saw that coming but she has a smoking hot body and "the other head" was doing the thinking for me.
But I digress...
So I did read the book... and it says everyone has to make their own decision to get sober (not have a sig other tell you to do it)
It also says there are people out there that are "social drinker" and not everyone is an alcoholic (addicted to alcohol).
But here is the thing... after going to some meetings they sure don't talk like anyone can be a "social drinker"... in fact when I would go out to dinner with this lady she would look with great disdain on anyone having a drink with their meal.
The whole group seemed rather clicky to me also... they even have a name for people who are not alcoholics... "normies"
Also if you look at their list of qualifiers for if you are an alcoholic it seems rather slanted in favor of you being an alcoholic, I wonder how they came up with that list? What empirical data did the use? (look ma, I used a big word)

Anyway if being in AA makes you a healthier happier person more power to you.

I just thought it was an interesting dynamic to the group and I could not think of anyone I could discuss this with.

Ah, but then there is PPOT.

Anyone here in AA? Know people who are? What is you take on the personalities in the group?

[dhoward]

Sister-in-law.
Hardcore AA. Runs meetings 5 times a week.
Brother still drinks. Not an alcoholic, just Friday happy hour stuff.
My experience with AAers is they trade one addiction for another.
Jesus and meetings.
JMO

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by dhoward

.......My experience with AAers is they trade one addiction for another.
Jesus and meetings.
JMO

Was exactly my thought.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by dhoward

.......My experience with AAers is they trade one addiction for another.
Jesus and meetings.
JMO

Was exactly my thought.

But then again they almost have to be "religious" about it if they are to have a decent shot at rehab.

[varmint]

for some people it's a godsend. they'd be dead without AA.

but i've stopped having one neighbor over for barbeques because he thinks my two beers with dinner is sign of a problem. and that i should come to meetings with him.


and i've never liked the idea that you are helpless to deal with your addiction on your own. something off about that.

[Moses]

Too many people "in recovery" are hopelessly self absorbed. Their struggles become everyone else's problems. It's not enough that you don't drink in her company? You have to express your commitment by going to AA meetings too? Not sure I'd have the patience for that.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by dhoward

My experience with AAers is they trade one addiction for another.
Jesus and meetings.
JMO

They reference a "higher power" I never heard anyone mention Jesus... and several people even had a problem with the word "God".

I did have a feeling that some were trading one addiction for another, but to me it more often looked like caffeine and nicotine for alcohol.

I don't know... how much of life is us negotiating with ourself for the lesser evil? Doesn't everyone to this to some degree?

[nostatic]

run screaming.

I think AA is great. I've gone to meetings. For some it literally saves their lives and it certainly helped me. But addictive personalities are addictive personalities, and unless you get professional help and are willing to do some serious work on your own, you just trade one thing for the other. AA is infinitely better than drinking, but if you don't want to be a part of it, then you shouldn't.

[Rot 911]

Like born again christians. Always preaching the gospel of AA. I know it really helps people, but I to have been a victim of someone convince that my 2 beers with my burger is one step away from complete addiction.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Moses

Too many people "in recovery" are hopelessly self absorbed. Their struggles become everyone else's problems. It's not enough that you don't drink in her company? You have to express your commitment by going to AA meetings too? Not sure I'd have the patience for that.

Well, yeah... when she started talking about breaking up I was actually a little relieved... kinda sad.

It is a great program for the people it works for, if you read their literature it is great stuff... but when you go to a meeting and they start getting all evangelistic about "taking the AA message to the world" it starts getting a little weird.

And I'm a member/attender of a Baptist church!

[varmint]

Originally Posted by Kurt V

Like born again christians. Always preaching the gospel of AA. I know it really helps people, but I to have been a victim of someone convince that my 2 beers with my burger is one step away from complete addiction.

maybe it was ten beers. i forget sometimes.

[jhynesrockmtn]

I speak from the experience of having grown up with two alcoholic parents who both found recovery when I was in my teens. My mother did it essentially on her own. She did go to AA later but more to support my father and others. She graduated from college a couple of years after me and went on to be a drug and alcohol counselor.

My father only got sober after finding AA. He did inpatient rehab several times, wrecked several cars, almost lost my mom and his family. AA saved his life, I'm convinced. He then became a leader. I was astounded at his funeral to see the group show up from various AA groups. People he's mentored and sponsored over the years. I had never met them and didn't initially know who they were. It was a side of him I never really saw, he never boasted or advertised his involvement. We talked about it certainly and he was incredibly proud of the changes he's made and the years of sobriety he'd achieved prior to his death. I think he had hit over 25.

My parents never diagnosed anyone, were very comfortable with people around them drinking, kept beer and wine at the house for me and other guests. Someone who is truly in recovery does not look down on others who use alcohol, does not force their lifestyle on others and knows the difference between a healthy social drinker and an alcoholic. They can operate in society without drinking just because it's there.

Best of luck. Despite the smokin hot bod, sounds like you need to find another girlfriend.

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

They reference a "higher power" I never heard anyone mention Jesus... and several people even had a problem with the word "God".

I did have a feeling that some were trading one addiction for another, but to me it more often looked like caffeine and nicotine for alcohol.

Maybe depends on where you are, or the dynamic of the particular group.

I don't know... how much of life is us negotiating with ourself for the lesser evil? Doesn't everyone to this to some degree?

I try not to be too introspective. It's worked for me so far...

YMMV

[widgeon13]

I am a very fortunate person. I stopped drinking in 1982 after some DUI issues, two to be exact. I attended AA to begin with and it certainly helped me beat the disease (or whatever you want to call it) but I have never made it anyone else's problem.

I conducted myself in business for the remaining years of my career 22 years and retired as an officer of my company (VP Sales, responsible for $600 mil in sales). I clearly had many opportunities to drink while entertaining customers. My practice was that I would hang in with the guys until midnight and then I was off too bed. Sometimes earlier if the opportunity presented itself and I didn't put a wet blanket on the evening of fun for everyone else.

I have buried at least three of my associates over the years who could not break the habit. I have little if any patience for excessive drinking but there is a big difference between getting a good toot on and alcohol abuse.

I have always seen it as my challenge not anyone else's. I don't attend AA meetings any more but know it helped me in the beginning and it has saved millions over the years, so it has it's place. I also have no reservations about people knowing I had (have) a drinking problem, many of my friends are aware of this.

I have to live with my behavior everyday and it has been a problem for me at many points in my life, getting my pilot's license, becoming an EMT, getting CCW permit. It still impacts my life every day. I wish I knew then what I know now. My wife was the driving force in getting me to quit, she said it's either alcohol or me, which do you want. I have never, ever regretted that decision.

Fortunately, I never physically hurt anyone when I was drinking but I was a different person under the effect of alcohol, crazy is probably a good term. I am very lucky to be alive today given all the stupid things I have done. I'm still crazy but more calculated risks.

I don't think your lady friend should make it your problem unless you see it as a problem as well. You shouldn't have to change your life to adhere to her values and practices, as I said it's the challenge of the individual not those who she associates with. If she wants someone to hang with that doesn't drink let her find someone else if you don't want to change your behavior.

[lfot]

AA is a cult.
If cults work for you, then go.

A year ago... wow! Actually a year ago today... my then girlfriend and I broke up because she had, after one month, become so hardcore AA that we couldn't spend any time together. It was "AA this" and "AA that". Meetings 5 nights a week. If I had a glass of wine around her, she would completely flip out.

Here's the weird part. SHE BARELY DRANK! A friend of hers asked her to come to a meeting one night and then suddenly she was an alcoholic.

I went to a meeting by myself, to see what it was like. First off, I'm an atheist. (And by the way, so was is my ex-girlfriend) There was WAY too much God going on and not enough support. Of the "12 steps", seven of them are about giving up personal responsibility and accountability. They also tell you that YOU ARE and alcoholic even if you aren't. They feed on individuals weaknesses. I grew up Catholic and being in an AA meeting was like going to mass. Everybody says the same chants over and over. Without cues! Very weird. I was seriously creeped-out by the experience.

And yes... the last step of the 12 is to go out and get more people into AA.

I realize I haven't covered a whole lot of bases here, but the general feeling I get from AA is what was said earlier in the thread.

TRADING ONE ADDICTION FOR ANOTHER.

[nostatic]

I totally disagree...AA is not a cult. It is an organization made of up humans. And pretty messed up ones humans at that. All in all, I am amazed at the success that it's members realize.

God was never mentioned at AA meetings I attended in both Berkeley and LA. Higher power, yes. But every group is different. And the "best" AA people I ran into were pretty Buddhist in their approach. They just share what works for them and you can take it or leave it. And in fact one of the slogans is "take what works and leave the rest." My other favorite is "one foot in the past, one in the future, perfect position to ***** on the present."

[scottmandue]

The other side of the coin are those who bad mouth AA...
Would you look down on a schizophrenic or manic depressive if they got on meds for their problem? Are they exchanging one problem (addiction) for another? Would you expect them to "suck it up" and pull themselves together?

As for the lady friend, she is already referring to me as her ex-boyfriend and I am OK with that. I am out looking for a more compatible companion... and/or if she wants to still hang out I am OK with that too.

[dhoward]

Ymmv

[DanielDudley]

You know what you get when you sober up a drunken horse thief ?

A horse thief. Most AAers were alchoholics from virtually the first drink. Many are genetis alcoholics, but almost all had personality problems that they thought alcohol could cure. Many stop developing emotionaly at the age they started to drink. Most alcoholics cannot even begin to mature until they have been sober for more that a year, and for most it is a slow process.

Less than 1 in 8 true alcoholics ever recover, and for many of these people AA is the lifeline that keeps them sober. I have no doubt that your lady friend truly needs AA in her life, but I am also quite sure that she cannot understand or accept your relationship with alcohol, as it is so far from her experience that she cannot accept it. Nor shpuld she try. for her, sobriety is a life or death decision, that could spiral out of control with her imbibing ONE DRINK. Literally.

She may never be relieved of the desire to drink, even though it could literally kill her to pick up again. Naturally, having a long term relationship with a moderate drinker could really be a bad thing for her sobriety. It is smart of her to realize the danger, but wrong of her to transfer her problem to you. SHe is going to be in recovery for the rest of her sober days, so you might want to take that into consideration. And I hope she has a long life, because she will need it to go through her baggage.

What am I saying ? How she is today is pretty much how she will be in ten years, if she is lucky. If she picks up again, it is all downhill from there. If you continue to date her, you will have to listen to AA for the rest of your life, even if you were to quit drinking tommorrow. That is just the way it is.

BTW, I quit drinking years ago, by my choice. Some time later, it was suggested to me that I attend AA meetings, which I did. I basicly stopped going, because I got tired of talking about drinking. It didn't have any meaning in my life. Of the many people I knew in AA, everyone of them I know who stopped going to AA meetings is drinking again except for me. That is just how it is. Of my AA friends, most did not experience peace of mind until they havd 10 to 20 years of sobriety.

However, if you want, go to an AA meeting. I would also suggest that you attend an Al Anon meeting, although to get any idea of it, you really need to go to a few more than one meeting.

LOL

[nostatic]

you're talking about "dry drunks", and as I said above, unless you're willing to do a lot of hard personal work (usually with professional help), then you'll always be a "dry drunk."

But a dry one is usually better than a wet ones...the wet ones smell after awhile.

I haven't been to a meeting in years, and I drink. But not to excess and I rarely even get any kind of buzz...just enjoy a glass of wine or a good margarita. Alcohol wasn't my problem. *I'm* my problem.