All Evolutionists, go see the movie "Expelled"

[the]

Originally Posted by IROC

I think it's because - for me at least - I cannot comprehend of someone who is so intellectually dishonest that they deny overwhelming evidence.

Well, that's because their beliefs are based on faith.

By definition, that is belief, in the absence of any evidence, or even in the fact of contradictory evidence.

What surprises me is how so many people proclaim their "faith," but then, ironically, undermine their faith themselves by trying to support their belief with "evidence."

If your religion commands that you believe on faith, why would you go contra to that command, by arguing or struggling to find or demonstrate "evidence" to support your beliefs? Yet, so many of the "faithful" do. Seems to me it is an express admission that they indeed LACK faith.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by the

Well, that's because their beliefs are based on faith.

By definition, that is belief, in the absence of any evidence, or even in the fact of contradictory evidence.

What surprises me is how so many people proclaim their "faith," but then, ironically, undermine their faith themselves by trying to support their belief with "evidence."

If your religion commands that you believe on faith, why would you go contra to that command, by arguing or struggling to find or demonstrate "evidence" to support your beliefs? Yet, so many of the "faithful" do. Seems to me it is an express admission that they indeed LACK faith.

Yeah, it's the "in the face of contradictory evidence" that I don't understand. For instance, if one wanted to believe on faith that there was intelligent life somewhere else in the universe, I would have no problem with that as we really don't have any evidence one way or another. Once somebody says that they believe on faith that a global flood occurred and a man named Noah built a really big boat, etc., they have wandered into intellectual dishonesty land.

[K. Roman]

Originally Posted by trekkor

Genesis lays it all out quite clearly.
It's in harmony with established FACT.
KT

According to Trekkor and more than half of America

Genesis

Angered by the wickedness of mankind, God selects Noah, "a righteous man, blameless in his generation," and commands him to build an Ark, and to take on it his family and representatives of the animals. God destroys the world with a Flood, and afterwards enters into a covenant with Noah and his descendants, the entire human race, promising never again to destroy mankind in this way.
Noah plants a vineyard, drinks wine, and falls into a drunken sleep. Ham "uncovers his fathers nakedness," and Noah places a curse on Ham's son Canaan, saying that he and all his descendants shall henceforth be slaves to Ham's brothers Shem and Japheth...




Wow, Evolution explained in Genesis huh?

[the]

A belief based on faith cannot be intellectually dishonest. It can be nuts, bonkers, objectively wrong, etc., but it can't be intellectually dishonest. That is impossible, because faith has nothing to do with intellect or reason, and in fact, by definition, ignores reason (faith is by definition is the exact opposite of reason).

[IROC]

Originally Posted by the

A belief based on faith cannot be intellectually dishonest. It can be nuts, bonkers, objectively wrong, etc., but it can't be intellectually dishonest. That is impossible, because faith has nothing to do with intellect or reason, and in fact, by definition, ignores reason (faith is by definition is the exact opposite of reason).

While I see your point, if a person holds a belief based on faith and then is presented with overwhelming evidence that their belief is false, but they then choose to hold the belief anyway, I vote for intellectual dishonesty.

[kstar]

I have faith the Earth is flat.

There.

Best,

Kurt

[the]

Originally Posted by IROC

While I see your point, if a person holds a belief based on faith and then is presented with overwhelming evidence that their belief is false, but they then choose to hold the belief anyway, I vote for intellectual dishonesty.

I guess, but on the flip side, for those who value faith, it could be viewed as the ultimate, complete, unwavering faith. A positive thing.

[kang]

Originally Posted by the

I guess, but on the flip side, for those who value faith, it could be viewed as the ultimate, complete, unwavering faith. A positive thing.

Now you’re talking cult material, Jimmy Jones, David Koresh, etc. I don’t see ultimate, complete, unwavering faith as a positive thing. It is in fact a very negative thing. For faith to be a good thing it needs adapt, change, learn and grow. Unwavering faith does not do this, and it results in cults.

[the]

Originally Posted by kang

\I don’t see ultimate, complete, unwavering faith as a positive thing. It is in fact a very negative thing.

You may not see it that way. But, ultimate, complete, unwavering faith is, to millions and millions of Americans, a very positive thing. It is what they have been taught in churches across the country for hundreds of years.

[madmmac]

Been in my cave for a while....has anyone found that "missing link" guy yet?

[Moses]

Originally Posted by madmmac

Been in my cave for a while....has anyone found that "missing link" guy yet?

Might be Snowman.

[kang]

Originally Posted by the

You may not see it that way. But, ultimate, complete, unwavering faith is, to millions and millions of Americans, a very positive thing. It is what they have been taught in churches across the country for hundreds of years.

How is teaching people not to think for themselves a good thing?

[the]

Depends on who you are, and what your goals are.

[kang]

Originally Posted by the

Depends on who you are, and what your goals are.

If you are Jimmy Jones or David Koresh and you want to control people, then I guess it is a good thing. But if you want people to adapt, change, grow and learn, which in turn causes society to adapt, change, grow and learn, then it is a bad thing. Teaching people to not think for themselves causes societal stagnation.

For whom and for what goals do you think that teaching people not to think for themselves is a good thing?

[kang]

Case in point: In the news now, the polygamist sect. They have indoctrinated their children (girls) to believe that “spiritual marriages” with older men is the norm.

[the]

Originally Posted by kang

If you are Jimmy Jones or David Koresh and you want to control people, then I guess it is a good thing.

Or if you are in the business of religion, or politics, or any other number of things.

[the]

Originally Posted by kang

For whom and for what goals do you think that teaching people not to think for themselves is a good thing?

Like I said above, pretty much anyone involved in the business of religion, politics, or any number of things. Like you said, it's good for anyone who wants to control others. There is no shortage of people who want to control others. For them, it's a very good thing - in fact, it's their most important and critical tool.

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by kang

How is teaching people not to think for themselves a good thing?

Idiocracy.

[sjf911]

An interesting aside to who is expelling whom and where did this all start. From the father of protestantism himself, Martin Luther about the Jews:

"First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them.

This is to be done in honor of our Lord and Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, blaspheming of his son and of his Christians....

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed...

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb...

Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews.

Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasures of silver and gold be taken from them for safekeeping...

Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam."

Martin Luther, On the Jews and Their Lies, translated by Martin H. Berman in Luther's Works: The Christian in Society IV, edited by Franklin Sherman

http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Genocide.cfm#11

And this movie has the audacity to suggest that Darwinism is responsible for the holocaust.

[trekkor]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it.

The Bible is 100% accurate.
I'll add, no man can prove otherwise.

Whatever man may think he knows to be true will ALWAYS be adjusted until he fianally 'gets it'.


KT