New Pilot Buying Plane; Your input?

[Embraer]

These guys have all given good advice. I'd stick with a 182 or a Cherokee 6 or something like that. Cirrus and Diamonds are the new "doctor killers"....like an old V-tail Bonanza.

Have it PPI'd, like you would with your 911. On the older planes, cracks in the structure and aluminum corrosion will be a death by a thousand cuts. (or death by structural failure)

After flying big jets, I went and rented a 172 a few weeks ago. ...I can't believe I ever flew those things. Coming in at 70 kts is damn scary!!!

[pwd72s]

Joe, what blew me away was when my buddy's dad said that the STOL mods actually made is 180 faster and more fuel efficient than the stock 180. That never made sense to me...care to explain? I didn't doubt the guy, I just couldn't figure out the how of it...

[rouxroux]

Originally Posted by Embraer

These guys have all given good advice. I'd stick with a 182 or a Cherokee 6 or something like that. Cirrus and Diamonds are the new "doctor killers"....like an old V-tail Bonanza.

Yep, a Cirrus went into Toledo Bend Reservoir just south of here 2 nights ago (On the TX/LA border). 3 dead.

[Jeff Alton]

Rob,

Give Steve a call at Spring Aviation in Kamloops, he will help you pick the right machine for your needs, and just down the road!!! Tell him an old Kamloops controller sent you!! He may not remember me as I was only there for a couple of years in the early 90's.....

Cheers

[911Rob]

Thanks again, I'm really enjoying this info.

Joe: you're the best buddy... I'll stay in touch with you as we progress.
Jeff: will do buddy, I think my partner knows him too.

We're just putting together our budgets and we're doing all the things that were mentioned above.

The plane will be used for visiting family and friends mostly, but also some scoping and camera work for real estate. We're definately in for 4+ seats minimum. Our local airstrip has lots of space so we're lucky we'll be able to get a hanger easily, but we'll check it out next week.

We're just getting our budget together; it's about $200K; $100K each and that includes about $150K for the plane. I'm gonna have to buy my wife off too and that's gonna be expensive!

As for my partner; well he's the best guy in the world, so no troubles there!

[Joeaksa]

Rob,

A couple of other things. Get a good A&P (aircraft mechanic) and start a relationship with him. If you want to do minimal maintenance, that is legal in America, not sure in the GWN. Stuff like spark plugs, air filters, light bulbs and so on are usually not an issue once you know how to do it correctly.

In the states you can do larger things on the plane if your mechanic feels comfortable with you and your work, and may work with you the first few times you do something "just in case" he/she wants to make sure that they are comfortable with the way you do things.

Second is start a budget right now and stick to it. If you want to do things correctly, for every hour you fly the plane, put something like $20 away for engine reserves, $10 for airframe and so on as you feel will be needed when the time comes. Put these funds in a special account that earns interest so that they are working while they sit. That way when its time for an engine overhaul or new cylinders its not a surprise or big shock and you have funds ready to take care of the costs.

As stated above, get a good PPI on the bird and a oil sample. Then take an oil sample every oil change for the first few changes to get a baseline on what is normal for YOUR airplane. Then when a value changes, you will notice it easier and do something before a part inside fails.

Get a flight in a Cessna and Piper. See which one you like. Personally I like the Cessna high wing airplanes as the Piper singles fly like a truck. Thats me and you two need to see which one you guys like. Same thing with headsets. There are several different types and try several to see what you guys like. I have several, a Bose, Telex and David Clark, all noise canceling. All are good and all have plus'ses and minuses, so borrow one of each if possible and give them a try.

Joe

PS regarding the wife. Its easy to buy her off. Have her get a pilots license so that she can fly down to Seattle or where-ever and go shopping on her own. At a minimum she needs to have what is called a "pinch hitters" course where she can talk on the radio and land the plane should something happen to you. Gives both of you more of a "warm and fuzzy" feeling.

[911Rob]

Right on Joe!
The buying is happening as we speak; ha, ha.
My wife took our youngest daughter and 2 of her friends down South to Penticton; they're shopping in Vernon, Kelowna and then while there they are spending two nights at a beachside hotel. (my bad gr?)
Ah, the good life!

My other two nested children are having a mini-party and still going... 1:30 AM; while the cats away;

[Joeaksa]

Rob,

Please do not buy anything too fast. Look around and try several airplanes. Pls send Tim and myself the specs when you get something you like and have some non-biased A&P mechanics look it over "just in case"...

Also one of the biggest concerns is the aircraft, engine and prop logbooks. A good mechanic can spend hours looking through them, just waiting for the one entry in fine print that says "replaced right wing strut, leading edge and landing gear" or the like that shows a previous accident or the like. If you see an entry that says "replaced part # e33445 with new serviceable part" and thats it, it may be time to worry when you find out that part #e33445 was a complete wing assembly. What happened to require this and so on. Its things like this that you need to be on the look for and cannot be rushed. It can take years of working with airplanes to get good at this, so find someone experienced that you trust.

Also remember that while one plane may be very nice and in good condition, avionics (radios, GPS, intercoms etc) can easily cost 1/3 of the cost of an airplane these days. Either buy one like you want or find one with older radios and spend the bux to add something like a Garmin 430 GPS/radio unit that can turn a descent airplane into a cherry one.

Lastly get a title search and title insurance on the airplane. Last thing you want is to get an airplane and find out that there is a mechanics lein on the airplane from the previous owner where they refused to pay the engine shop who now hold a lein for $20,000 when they overhauled the engine.

A good place to start on this is AOPA Canada. Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association can do the title search for you and help with other aspects of buying an airplane for first time owners.

Yes its a lot to chew on at once but use those of us who have done this before and who can save you a lot of headache's.

Joe

[Zef]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Guys,

A taildragger is a wonderful airplane but for two beginning pilots would be a handful.

As well a SuperCub is not going to do what he wants it to do. Slow, expensive and not enough seats.

A C-180/185 on the other hand.... very nice airplane and would do what they want it to do, but as well takes a bit of special training to get used to, especially in crosswind situatoins!

Joe

+ 1 on that one Joe...Remember in the good ol'days...? all pilots were trained on tail happy craft...And it's the best pilots training...Learn to fly tail happy and you can fly anything thereafter...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Congrats Rob! As soon as money and time allows, I also plan to go down the path towards becoming a pilot. I spent my entire childhood flying around KS in my grandfather's V35 Bonanza, I can't think of any activity on earth that is more fun. Hell, that's the reason I'm an aerospace engineer, that's the reason I work at a Wichita aircraft company. Even better, it's something that you can share with your kids.

As expected, Joe and Tim have given you some excellent advice. I would only add to learn all that you can, and continue learning, not only about aircraft but about being a pilot. Fly as often as possible, and get all the training and ratings that you can. Get your IFR rating, there a MANY GA pilots who don't come home because their VFR flight became IFR and they didn't know how to deal with it. Plus, when learning and training = flying more, you really can't go wrong. Enjoy it! Owning an aircraft is a lifelong dream of mine, but for now membership to our company flying club will have to suffice. At least they have 5 A36 Bonanzas.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Embraer

These guys have all given good advice. I'd stick with a 182 or a Cherokee 6 or something like that. Cirrus and Diamonds are the new "doctor killers"....like an old V-tail Bonanza.

It is the pilot not the airplane.

After reading Rob's posts for the past few years, he comes across as a very high energy guy that will soon tire of the performance a 182 class of plane represents. He also comes across as a guy who understands training and proficiency, so a Cirrus class of plane won't be a, "Real Estate Developer" killer

Here are my requirements for a private plane (I have over 4k hours in everything from all classes of Navy aircraft to Cubs):

- Stick. I hate yokes.
- Low wing
- Fast cruise, minimum of 150Kts
- Capable of gentleman's aerobatics (loop/rolls, etc)

I plan on building a Vans RV-8 taildragger.

[Joeaksa]

Paul,

Do not disagree with any of the above but a couple of comments.

You are a military trained pilot, while Rob is not. You are VERY experienced and Rob is not.

Let Rob get his feet wet in something nice and stable, with a bit of performance then decide which direction he wants to go. A RV is a very nice airplane but its fast and small inside. Not IMHO what you want to use when doing orbits over a property you are trying to sell to "Ma and Pa" in the GWN.

Joe

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Paul,

Do not disagree with any of the above but a couple of comments.

You are a military trained pilot, while Rob is not. You are VERY experienced and Rob is not.

Let Rob get his feet wet in something nice and stable, with a bit of performance then decide which direction he wants to go. A RV is a very nice airplane but its fast and small inside. Not IMHO what you want to use when doing orbits over a property you are trying to sell to "Ma and Pa" in the GWN.

Joe

I agree, Joe...the RV is not for Rob!

My advice for Rob is exactly yours, only I wouldn't buy until my feet were absolutely soaked The RV-8 is for the boy and I...he wants to start pilot training as soon as possible at the local training school.

[cgarr]

Remember if you build one yourself then you do all your own inspections and any work on it which can save you huge over time..

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

It is the pilot not the airplane.



I plan on building a Vans RV-8 taildragger.

Coincidence? Or do ex military pilots think alike? My friend Jimbo...USAF, final ride there was F-111, then "drove bus" for American until retiring on his 60th birthday. Not a taildragger, but nearing completion on an RV7-A
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-7int.htm

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Coincidence? Or do ex military pilots think alike? My friend Jimbo...USAF, final ride there was F-111, then "drove bus" for American until retiring on his 60th birthday. Not a taildragger, but nearing completion on an RV7-A
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-7int.htm

Jimbo, despite his USAF handicap, is a wise and thoughtful man.

Every F-111 pilot I've known is a solid soul...I bet Jimbo lights it up.

Most military pilots I know want their right hand on the stick, left hand on the gas. All porn related analogies are appropriate and apt.

[the]

Get something that can hold 6 people. Way more flexible for your travels.

[911Rob]

Thanks again everyone, Joe, Tim and Seahawk especially.
Matt, we'll see ya in the sky one day buddy.....
Craig, I won't be building my own plane; ha, ha. Sorry not me.
My family jokes with me and says that I should get a one seater as no one will ever fly with me. (kinda got a bad rep for speeding )

This was exactly what I wanted when posting this thread, so I'm very happy with the great info here, and once again thanks JOE! Great stuff you posted and I promise to follow your suggestions to the "T", OK>

I directed my partner here too and he's had a read through the thread; so we're happy that the Cessna 182 seems to be a good fit for us to get started on.

I realize I might get bored of it, but I'm willing to take it slow. I drove a 2.7L 1974 911 for many years and was very happy with it. I plan on getting the best training possible and so does my partner. When I first met him he came into my office and saw a picture of a 911 poster. He commented how he liked the 911. I told him that I was gonna own one soon and he said, "Me too." We both do now, ha, ha. Over the years we've been partners on a few ventures and we both love setting goals and going after them; only this is NOT a goal for me, it is simply a plan that I AM executing; my 'goal' setting days are over!

Great info guys and cheers to ya all!
See ya in the sky!

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Jimbo, despite his USAF handicap, is a wise and thoughtful man.

Every F-111 pilot I've known is a solid soul...I bet Jimbo lights it up.

Most military pilots I know want their right hand on the stick, left hand on the gas. All porn related analogies are appropriate and apt.

HOOT! You should see Jimbos 2nd wife! I drool a bit...

[cgarr]

Something else to think about:

You fly a taildragger and you drive everything else