Where did they come from?

[JavaBrewer]

So the 6 days of creation are not literal 24 hr days but the rest, the ones you use to determine the 6k years of man, are...? Please explain how that makes sense to you. Nobody was wearing a watch in those days but the sun rising and setting is ubiquitous for measuring a day. But not in the bible?

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by trekkor

Question: The ten commandment were part of the Mosaic Law. How many laws were there?

Bonus points: Are we under the law today?


KT

Not unless you want to be. What do I win.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

I am only left with the Gospels, and the many personalities ascribed to Jesus. But of the entire book, they ring the most true from an intellectual standpoint, and when put into practice, prove their worth from an emotional/conscious standpoint. The Gospels, to me, can be tested and proven experientially.

.

Yes they ring true. As does the epic of Gilgamesh, FWIW.

[DanielDudley]

How did the epic of Gilgamesh go anyway ? Wasn't he an archer on a chariot, waiting for a great battle to start? Suddenly the horse bolted, and he found himself racing into the field between the two opposing armies, at which point time stood still...

The chariot driver then turned to face him, and it was Lord Krishna, who then described to him the qualities that a man must have in life, in love and in all things. All the virtues really that a man might aspire to.

And then there he was, back in the thick of it. That's it, that's the meaning of Christmas Charlie Brown. [ And on earth, peace, to men of goodwill. ]

[trekkor]

Originally Posted by dmoolenaar

So the 6 days of creation are not literal 24 hr days but the rest, the ones you use to determine the 6k years of man, are...? Please explain how that makes sense to you. Nobody was wearing a watch in those days but the sun rising and setting is ubiquitous for measuring a day. But not in the bible?

I believe I mentioned this before.
There is also a Seventh 'day'.

Genesis 2:1-3 "Thus the heavens and the earth and all their army came to their completion. 2 And by the seventh day God came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made. 3 And God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred, because on it he has been resting from all his work that God has created for the purpose of making."

The day of God's rest from creation. That day has not yet ended, so it's already been 6033 years long. Not 24 hours.



KT

[trekkor]

I believe I also mentioned this as well:

Genesis 2:4-"This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."

The entire creative period of days is also referred to as 'the day'.
So six days of any length would never be one 24 hour day.


KT

[trekkor]

of course, there is always more.

psalms 90:4 For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past

2 Peter 3:8 However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day

There's just a few examples directly from the Bible where a day is not 24 hours.

Would you like me to find more?



KT

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Well I guess when the Bible is a living document, you can make it mean whatever you want Trek, I suppose you could find examples all day long. Either Genesis 1 is correct and the rest are wrong, or Genesis is wrong and any of the others are correct.

just proves that you can't trust the Bible more than anything else. if it's so self-contradictory where you have to pick and choose what to believe to justify your current argument, then how do you decide what is real and what isn't?

So why don't you believe in Genesis 1 but believe in the rest?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by trekkor

of course, there is always more.





There's just a few examples directly from the Bible where a day is not 24 hours.

Would you like me to find more?



KT

Now this is cherry picking at it's worst. I read the Psalm. I read Peter.

The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day is a thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context — the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.

The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’ — the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years — to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.

The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 (Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching). This reads:

‘For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.’

This is synonymous parallelism, where a long period of a thousand years is contrasted with two short periods: a day, and a night watch. But those who try to use this verse to teach that the days of Genesis might be 1000 years long forget the additional part in bold. For if they were consistent, they would have to say that a watch in the night here also means 1000 years. It’s difficult to imagine that the same Psalmist (Psalm 63:6) is thinking on his bed for thousands of years or that his eyes stay open for thousands of years (Psalm 119:148).

The immediate context of the Psalm is the frailty of mere mortal man in comparison to God. This verse amplifies the teaching, saying that no matter how long a time interval is from man’s time-bound perspective, it’s like a twinkling of an eye from God’s eternal perspective.

In any case, the meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there — the Hebrew word for day, yôm, is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. The meaning of the days of creation as ordinary days is also affirmed by Exodus 20:8–11, where God told the Israelites to work for six days and rest on the seventh because God had made all things in six days and rested on the seventh.

[trekkor]

There are more than one meaning to different words.

you can make it mean whatever you want Trek

Actualy, I won't do that.

2 Timothy 3:16,17- "16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

KT

[trekkor]

You seem to get the sense of God's limitless restraints regarding time, yet you are stuck on the 24 hour day.

If the seventh day is not yet ended, how are you justifying that?



KT

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I'm disappointed in how you are spinning the original ancient texts. The great thing about them was when they said something, wrote it down, it only meant one thing. I recommend learning Hebrew and Greek so as not to fall into the trap of placing meanings onto words that aren't there.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by trekkor

You seem to get the sense of God's limitless restraints regarding time, yet you are stuck on the 24 hour day.

If the seventh day is not yet ended, how are you justifying that?



KT

Words, original words in the text, have specific meaning Trek. That's all there is to it.

I am not stuck on the 24 hour day. The 24 hour day is a fact defined by the Bible itself. Why are you stuck on denying it? I don't understand that. I don't understand why you are citing references that spin a false viewpoint, when all you need to do is read the original text.

[trekkor]

Where did they come from?

See post #226 above, about 45 minutes ago.


KT

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by trekkor

Where did they come from?

See post #226 above, about 45 minutes ago.


KT

I recommend reading Genesis in Hebrew and/or Greek. Then you can choose which account of creation you want to believe in, but please pay close attention to the original words used. They have specific meanings. Genesis 1 clearly states that each day of creation is as a day we know it to be. Let us know what Genesis 2 says based on the ancient texts, not a modern manipulation. And please don't cherry pick quotes from the Bible completely out of context to support a claim they have nothing to do with.

I find it incredibly disingenuous that you ascribe whole new English meanings to original Hebrew words.

Thanks.

[dentist90]

As to the debatable length of the 'days' of creation:
it would seem logical that if humans created by God, after the fall, lived to be hundreds of years old that the days were actually much shorter than a 24 hr day. By the same logic, the earth must have cycled around the sun at 10x it's present velocity if a year is a consistent measure, thus a present day ripe old age of 85 could be 850 yrs. Physics tells us that the earth could not maintain it's present distance from the sun at that velocity. What has changed since humans were first' placed' on the earth, then?

Keep in mind that the infallible leader of the Catholic Church actually had people imprisoned and tortured for disagreeing with his (ie, the Church's) biblical interpretation of the way the universe worked.

[dentist90]

It's not that skeptics such as myself wish to ridicule people of faith. I do find it ironic, though, that if a person of faith cannot convince a skeptic (agnostic, atheist, whatever) to believe in the words of the bible they tend to think of us as close-minded, misguided, perhaps even lost. However, when you ask a person of faith what it would take for them to disavow their beliefs, the answer is NOTHING. Their faith is rock steady. So who is not open to reason?

[Rodsrsr]

Mark 10:6 gives a very clear example of the fact that Jesus spoke of a young earth. "At the beginning of creation, God made them male and female" He is clearly teaching that Adam and Eve were made at the beginning of creation, not billions of years after the beginning.

[Rodsrsr]

Mark 10:6 "At the beginning of creation God made them male and female." Here Jesus is teaching that man was made at the "beginning" of creation, not millions or billions of years later.

[trekkor]

I do not agree.
That verse deals with marriage, if you examine the surrounding context.
Marriage is between a man and a woman. Biblically. Since man's creation.
That was the point.

Many times the bible uses the term 'time indefinate'.
We can clearly trace the years from man's beginning.

If the six days were 24 hours long, which they are not, we could trace that too.
The seventh day still goes on, BTW. It's not a 24 hour day either.

Young Earth is unscriptural.



KT