Trail of Tears as one example. History's a b!tch.

Funny, very funny.

I don't think he thinks America is bad, just don't go around the world overthrowing governments, become the world largest arms exporter and then expect to be held up as an inflable holy deity.

Our government is not a holy deity, not in the past, present or future will it ever be. If that was Wright's message then I kind of understand it, and I'm not even black.;)

I think reverend Wright, according to certain folks needs to love the country unconditionally and not criticize it whatsoever. Wasn't he a USMC guy? Can he not have a voice? Anyone check the whole sermon?

One can look the Wright issue in (at least) two ways:

1) Personal opinion of Wright's words; or

2) Political views re how Wright's words may affect the electorate.

FTR, I have been focusing on number 2!

FWIW.

it is a roll of the dice and he's certainly backed away from it. Like any politician, he wants to have it both ways. The problem is I think that will ending up biting him in both directions come this summer.

I guess it never ceases to amaze me how blindingly "white" some people are around here...there is *one* version of reality, and everything/everyone else is "wrong."

Yes he was....so was Lee Harvey Oswald. Good cop, bad cop. Not all priests are pedophiles. Not all Republicans are "heartless". Not all Democrats are stupid.;)

Wasn't trying to be funny.

I double checked the dictionary on the word damn. Here are the results:

damn –verb (used with object)
1. to declare (something) to be bad, unfit, invalid, or illegal.
2. to condemn as a failure: to damn a play.
3. to bring condemnation upon; ruin.
4. to doom to eternal punishment or condemn to hell.

Given that Mr. Wright is a preacher, I assume that he was referring to the last definition. To pray (he was talking to God was he not?) for America to be condemned to hell for eternity seems a little harsh IMO.

I find that to be particularly interesting coming from a guy that has obviously received the benefits of this horrible society that deserves to be cast into the pit of eternal fire.

The guy is a racist and profits by it.

How many people sitting in the pews of his church are employed by the city, county or fed goverment?

How many people in the pews of his church recieve city, county or fed gov't services?

How does he think the goverment is?

I think he was D---ing the actions of the government.

From his list the only weak argument was the invasion of Grenada, but you know that because you have actually watched the full clip, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada

He wasn't Marine he was Navy and yes he can have a voice but what he is doing and where he is doing it from is the wrong way to go about it, he is just grandstanding now to make lots of money before he drops back into obscurity and he is going to drag Obama down with him which is not a bad thing as Obama just tells everyone what they want to hear, he is no better a politician than any of the others.

They should all get inline and taste the liberal guilt kool-aide, then they would see the light ;)


I only see one version of reality. Prolly because there is only one reality. Anything else by definition is unreal.
Maybe it would be different if I had experimented with mind altering drugs, but I called in sick that day at hippie school ;)

and you base this belief on what exactly, possibly something a unicorn told you?
I was not aware that adultery was illegal, but it helps to divide people along racial lines, if you see that as appropriate for the pulpit. I don't.

Just because he may mirror the beliefs of his parishoners(evident in the reaction from the crowd during his sermons), makes it no less racist, no less divisive and no less damaging to the Black Americans his church's stated mission is to specifically benefit.

He foments racial hatred by making statements that he almost certainly knows are false to financially benefit himself. How exactly is it going to be helpful to his flock when he tells them white people invented crack cocaine or AIDS to kill blacks? I can see how it helps him, but the po' folks dropping cash in the collection plate to help defray the cost of his $10 million dollar home, how is this helping them?

He has the freedom to say whatever he wants. When he makes offensive, racist statements to get attention, he shouldn't be upset when he gets negative attention.

Todd, I don't really get where I have an alternative reality relative to the rest of the planet

I DONT see that as appropriate along with many other things he says from behind the pulpit, and for the record adultery is illegal in many states.

"The guy is a racist and profits by it."

Exactly. He's a race baiting self promoting assh*le. He's gone farther than even Jesse ever dared. The pathetic attempts to justify his speeches on here are not convincing me (and evidently a lot of others) any differently. Martin Luther King was a preacher- Mr. Wright mongers hate.

The trail of tears or slavery were not perpetrated by anyone alive today and while they're important to remember they should be put in context to ensure they are understood and never happen again- not to be used as incendiaries to promote division and mistrust- or as excuses for the failures of so many to assimilate themselves within our society and make it (and themselves) successful.

One hand's a fist damning the USA and the other's open seeking a favor from the very same government. And the bleeding hearts here consider it "white" when someone considers this repellent and want to justify Mr. Wright as just "doing his job" as a "preacher".

Sorry, I don't share your guilt and I'm not buying his hatred. The sooner he's off the national stage the better.

I'm not saying his words are "right" and are not "racist." But that in fact perception is the key. Comments like "there is only one reality" just show the narrow view of the world. How someone perceives a situation is dependent on a lot of factors. Just like there is no "photorealism" and no such thing as a documentary without bias, there is no absolute perception. eg look at different people's accounts/recollections of the same event. They will invariably be different, and often that can be traced to embedded cultural mores.

It has nothing to do with "liberal guilt." It has to do with having some empathy and actually admitting that other people might have a different take on "reality."

The problem is that we haven't overthrown enough governments!

You can debate Rev. Wright's sermons all day but I am quite certain his audience on Sunday does not interpret/debate it the way it is being disseccted in PPOT. His outrageous comments are specifically meant for the shock effect and he is basking in the limelight that the media affords to folks like him. He enjoys this freedom because he is in America.

He is not a prophet nor a patriot in my opinion and while his comments are protected by free speech he is no different from Jesse and Al Sharpton in trying to insight the people who listen to him as well as hiding behind the cloak of religion.

Hippie school.
I don't care who you are, that's funny.

On these crisp Michigan evenings I like to curl up with the wife in front of Nostatic's crackling hearth of enlightenment.

I'm sure most of us have no problem understanding how/why such folk develop their mindsets, that doesn't mean we have to accept or coddle them either. I can see why he believes what he believes and at the same time know he's dead wrong, they are not mutually exclusive ideas.

Ldiddy...you ARE kinky:D

It's 3:00 am and the phone is ringing. President Obama answers it. On the other end of the line is Rev. Wright.....

You finish the story.

I guess it never ceases to amaze me how blindingly "white" some people are around here...there is *one* version of reality, and everything/everyone else is "wrong."

what's really spectacularly racist is saying that there are different "realities" for different races.

Reality is determined by perspective. Perspective is determined by a bunch of factors.

Not for most tuning into Fox News. There is only ONE Factor. Perspective is determined for you.

Bill, tell'em what they've won...

Lotta words being tossed around here in the name of defending/impeaching Wright's statements based on their validity. I don't think the man is even sure WHAT he is saying; he's just looking for a way to print his winning lotto ticket out of all this. And he's such a piece of trash that he doesn't care if he takes Obama down a few notches in the process.

Some of you guys are giving this clown waaaay too much credit. Doesn't really matter that some of what he says may have the ring of truth. Anybody that mouths off that much will hit on some truth once in a while. He's just looking for a paycheck.

Actually, perspective skews your view of reality. There is only one reality.

Though perspective is obviously determined by a variety of factors.

i disagree. i think reality is the same for all of us. we each color it with the sum of our life experience and the life experience of those who influence us BUT reality doesn't change.

there are a number of philosophers who would disagree with you ;)

Reality is determined by perspective. Perspective is determined by a bunch of factors.


so, from somebody's racially based perspective, it's "true" that the C.I.A. created AIDS to kill black people?


what's the point of having a conversation with someone who can't come to some terms with reality?

And some Deadheads too :)

Dopesmokers:D

this is just a clever media stunt put on by the Obama campaign and Wright so that Obama can distance himself from Wright and mollify all you White guys. See, he's really not TOO black for you.

Todd, there is only one reality. You can have a different perspective on reality, but that does not change reality
This is just flat wrong. It does not matter if you say it over and over.
they are also mistaken

Real is real, it stays constant.

It is like the blind men and the elephant(Socrates or Aristotle perhaps), one touches a leg and thinks the animal is like a tree, one grabs the tail and thinks he has a snake, yet a third the ear, thinking he touched a land flounder, or however that tale goes. The elephant never changes, their perspective does, and this changes their perception of the facts.

You forgot to make your last post green, Shaun

I love it when people use epistemology to derail a conversation when they cannot make a valid argument.

your episiotomy still sore?

Not anymore.

But I should tell you Shaun...I went to the doctor this week........and you probably should too... :D

I knew I shouldn't have trusted you, just knew it. Now I've got to take the dog to the vet.:D

Obama is an outright RACIST, plain and simple. He is also a communist. Obama also belongs to someone who is actually calling the shots. Who does Obama answer to? The Reverend Wright???

Whether Obama answers to Reverend Wright or not is questionable, (albeit probable) but one thing seems certain; the man who wants to be the POTUS can't even sway his close friend to STFU. --powerless, inept, ineffectual, impotent....

All of Obama's Hope is tied up in the notion that once he has a position of power he will do great things.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1209450315.jpg


...hmmmm. Yeah, I don't buy it.

yeah, if only that was the case...

Nice thesaurus word though. 5 stars!