Will high fuel prices bring back the American "Community"?

[Gogar]

So, I live in the house My Grandparents bought new in 1928. My father was born here.

I remember when I was a little kid in the '70s we used to come visit Grandma for a few days. It was great. We used to walk to the Dollly Madison 3 blocks away and the little supermarket to get groceries. Some special nights we would walk to the local pizza restaurant 2.5 blocks away and get dinner.

The big trip during the week was a combo, to Elitch's, to ride the roller coaster, and to the model train store At Broadway and Virginia (for me) where we would gaze in awe at the huge HO-scale setup in the middle of the store.

So, I was thinking; my grandma always fussed over the trip to Elitch's because it was so far for her to drive. It's about 6-7 miles. Perhaps she just didn't enjoy driving, I'm sure.

What's the point?

Today's typical gum-chewing, soccer-momming, cell-phone yakking, butt-scratching American will drive their Ford Intimidator 18 miles to Costco to save $3 on a 5-gallon tub of mayonnaise. Do you think that higher gas prices and more expensive EVERYTHING will bring about a return to locally-owned, locally-located (haha) community-centric businesses? Like in, say, NYC.

[dtw]

Dude. Elitch's Village. Are you serious?!?! I haven't heard that name in 25 years. I used to go there when I was a little kid! How old are you, I'm 34 - we might have ridden the trains together.

Oh and on-topic - yes, likely - but can be difficult w/suburban sprawl...

[peppy]

I hope so, there has to be a silver lining.

[the]

No.

[onewhippedpuppy]

What is Elitch's today, 6 Flags? I think I went there as a kid just before they changed the name.

Interesting question. If prices continue to rise, people will prefer staying close to home. Driving 20 miles to save a few dollars will no longer be cost effective. So I can see where it could help the small, local, neighborhood stores. Either that, or we'll end up with a Super Wal-Mart on every corner.

[KaptKaos]

HA!

Not gonna happen.

For example: In Westchester CA, which is pretty much Post-war planned residential community, they built schools in the neighborhoods where they built the houses. Small houses, designed for aerospace/defense workers with schools the kids could walk to. Walkways and easements made through properties so kids wouldn't have to cross busier main streets. A majority of the kids that go to those schools are bussed in. The LAUSD counts on that because if all of the private/home schooled kids all of a sudden showed up, they'd explode. They need soccer moms to put the miles on the cars, dropping their kids off at schools all around the area.

Funnily enough, there is a supermarket nestled in a spot in our little community too, surrounded by houses.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by dtw

Dude. Elitch's Village. Are you serious?!?! I haven't heard that name in 25 years. I used to go there when I was a little kid! How old are you, I'm 34 - we might have ridden the trains together.

Oh and on-topic - yes, likely - but can be difficult w/suburban sprawl...

I'm 36.

Elitch's was bought and moved by the 6-Flags franchise to where it is now, in the Platte river valley. Since (maybe last year) 6-Flags got out and it's now owned by (??????) Or maybe it's just not called "6-flags" anymore. I don't know.

[Rick Lee]

I don't know how rising gas prices can make shopping cheaper for anyone. The big box stores can absorb the higher prices for their goods and still make them a lot cheaper than can the smaller retailers. More expensive gas makes everything more expensive. Still, when I was living in Garland, TX in the mid-70's, life was just fine without SUV's and cell phones. We got by just fine with a Toyota Corolla and one rotary dial phone in the house, no answering machine, no remote control. My dad worked at TX Instruments and rode his motorcycle to work and back. Every day he'd give me a ride around the block when he got home. I walked to school, sometimes rode my bike. Going to Six Flags in Arlington was a once a year very big trip.

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by Gogar

. Do you think that higher gas prices and more expensive EVERYTHING will bring about a return to locally-owned, locally-located (haha) community-centric businesses? Like in, say, NYC.

I believe there will be concentrated areas of residential/business. AZ has a few and City North http://www.citynorthaz.com/ will be soon built/completed. The demand will be determined by the price and demographics of desired population.

Will I be interested? Probably not, but I do enjoy the feel of historic/compact European cities.

John_AZ

[Jim Richards]

We used to take our son to Elitch's probably around 25 years ago.

There have been a number town center style developments in this area, but that only provides neighborhood shopping and dining. The real jobs are still a long commute for most folks, as suburban sprawl consumes the exurbs. We might see more public transportation first, along with more car/van-pooling.

[Jims5543]

We are lucky to live where we do in Florida, everything we need is a little further than a walk to the end of the block but close enough to take a bicycle to with ample bike paths / sidewalks to stores, including grocery, pizza, deli and a whole little downtown area of shops and restaurants.

There is an elementary school at the entrance to our subdivision, our older son went there but our younger one will not due to the teachers, and the broken public school format. So we drive our kids to private schools and it does rack up a gas bill each week. The private school is 1 town away.

When we visit my wifes aunt in Brooklyn NY I am always blown away how easy it is to get anything you want within 2 blocks of the brownstone.

[kach22i]

Traditional Neighborhood Development.........by state, but the project I did in Michigan is not on the list.
http://www.tndtownpaper.com/neighborhoods.htm

[Jim Sims]

There's an old real estate adage that states never buy a house especially a rental house that isn't within walking distance of a grocery store. It may ring more true now given the cost of fuel. The LA lifestyle model may be doomed; if so a lot of people are in for some "wrenching" changes. It may be better though for our physical and mental health to walk and bicycle more, eat less and find fulfillment by doing things and interacting with people versus rushing and working our lives away so we can get more stuff.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Long term, I believe things will change to a more European model with denser communities incorporating mixed-use and a lot of pedestrian/highly-localized employment. I further suspect that people MIGHT become less migratory/transient, but possibly not.

This won't be for a couple of generations though. It'll probably take that long to change the mentality of Americans that everyone should aspire to have a McMansion detached single-family home with a golf-course green lawn located at least 30 miles from any city. It'll take a lot to undo that idealized notion that's been rammed down our throats since post-WW2 era.

Another HUGE issue is mass-transit. In a word, it sucks in the U.S. Almost universally in big cities. Trains are expensive to overlay on top of existing infrastructure. Buses have (and probably always will) a "low class" stigma, deserved or not - and will be shunned. There are some exceptions (mostly east coast, although S.F.'s isn't too bad). We need to change our attitude about mass-transit in order to sustain our "spread-out" lifestyles with city/suburbs, commercial&industrial/residential separated by great distances.

We also need to increase the efficiency of long-distance transportation. I predict a resurgence of railroad activity (it's way more efficient to ship stuff by rail than by truck in terms of pounds per dollar of fuel). Right now, we're WAY too dependent on trucking.

All these things take a long time and Americans are incredibly slothful with respect to their ability to adapt to change. It will be long, arduous and painful. But there will be plenty of opportunity for smart people.

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Jim Sims

It may be better though for our physical and mental health to walk and bicycle more, eat less and find fulfillment by doing things and interacting with people versus rushing and working our lives away so we can get more stuff.

My sister lives in the country. Like way in the country. She calls me with a story how she was cursed out at the local transfer station by some stressed dad in a big suv.. Apparently she was backing up too slowly into the garage with the big "pit" inside. Many, many, many fu&ked up people in this modern America - rushing home to watch cable TV and beat the kids...

[Cdnone1]

Kaptkaos
Hey I live in Westchester and walk to Von's almost every day. Where are you?
There has actually been a large resurgence of neighbors keeping their kids at Cowan. I don't think Westchester is a good example because most people I know walk a fair bit and there certainly is no lack of support for the local merchants. Von's, Tower, Hacenda Del Rey etc
Steve

[HardDrive]

My wife and I have an SUV and my Mercedes E series as our primary vehicles. Not the most fuel effcient vehicles, but we drive about 1/3 as most folks. Less than 7k on all of our vehicles last year. We live 1 block from my wifes work, 1 miles from a great shoping area/grocery store.

Chosing fuel effcient vehicles is great, but NOT DRIVING is even better. All over Seattle/Portland you are seeing great mixed use developments that have shopping/restaurants/homes all together.

The 'terrible future' in which gas is $6 a gallon may not be so terrible after all. It may in fact be the start of a new urbanism that gives up back the cohesive communitys that we lonely Americans long for.

[Normy]

I do tours of the "Stranahan House", a historical museum that the founder of Fort Lauderdale built in 1901.

Frank Stranahan originally built the house as a trading post. The first floor was just that until 1906, and the second floor was a community center.

-Back then, there was no internet. There was no television. No DVD, no HDTV, no theaters, no cinema...nothing. The town [now about 1 million people] was about 5 families clustered around a river, and a couple hundred Seminoles in the everglades about 10 miles to the west. Basically, in the evening they sat around, told stories, sang, played instruments... and otherwise worked hard to amuse each other. All while slapping at the mosquitos~

They probably had a better "community life" than we do these days. YES, there are places like Pelican and that other place that starts with "R" [and that is run by two butteaters] that take up our time and yes, there is a little bit of a "community" in these places, but the participants in thes later places come and go, and the managements generally cause people to leave. Those people dealt with each other face to face- they weren't thousands of miles away, behind "tinted windows", and they had to deal with each other every day irregardless of how they were getting along. What's more, "bipolar" people were quickly smacked down into their place- back then, "bipolar" people didn't exist- they simply got their ass beat.

Things really did make more sense in the time of Frank Stranahan-

But I DO suspect that fuel prices may indeed mean that neighbors get together more often. My neighbors get together on a regular basis and pound the occasional beer or 17. That's what Frank basically did in the second floor of his shop. Only they didn't have beer- Ivy, his wife, was a 7th Day Adventist and didn't allow alcohol. Frank just stepped outside to the Seminole chikee with the men and sampled the good Kentucky bourbon-

Hell- maybe if we elect another Republican and gas goes above $7 per gallon....we will start playing musical isntruments for each other!

N!

[Gogar]

Geez, Normy. You sure covered a lot of bases in that post. Tell us how you really feel.

[pwd72s]

[QUOTE}

Today's typical gum-chewing, soccer-momming, cell-phone yakking, butt-scratching American will drive their Ford Intimidator 18 miles to Costco to save $3 on a 5-gallon tub of mayonnaise. Do you think that higher gas prices and more expensive EVERYTHING will bring about a return to locally-owned, locally-located (haha) community-centric businesses? Like in, say, NYC.[/QUOTE]


Not a chance.