Vinman and Milt excepted

[Flatbutt1]

but apologies to them and other contractors...however

What is it with the contractors I’m dealing with? I didn’t go cheap, I’m paying top dollar for the renovation to my home but I can’t get these guys to show up!

Yes it’s a big job but that’s why I’m paying so much! A partial demolition, then excavation, a slab, block foundation followed by re-construction over the original footprint.

One month into the job and all I have is the foundation! A whole month!! To do an 18x25 foot slab and foundation!! They’ve worked no more than five days in the month so obviously they can move quickly but dang!

HTF do I get these guys to work without pissing them off?

Rant over

[kstar]

I think the trick is not not pay too much upfront and have agreed upon "completion levels" for further payments . . . and withhold enough at the end to keep them motivated.

Not sure where you are in this regard, but this is what I have learned the hard way. A well thought out contract at the beginning makes the difference, IMO.

FWIW.

[Flatbutt1]

I have a payment schedule that stipulates payment according to work started. So I have only paid them for what they've completed. They don't get another payment until framing is under way. Still I'm living with a freakin' shell and a yard that looks like downtown Beirut.

Anyone know if NJ law lets me withhold money despite what the payment schedule calls for?

[URY914]

They're working on another job to get another draw.

Did the GC sub the framing to someone else?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

In addition to payment milestones, it's a good idea to build "phasing" into projects whereby either the client or the contractor has the right to discontinue the relationship once the conditions of that phase are completed. I do this on my design contracts - it gives you a chance to say "thank you, here's what we agreed on, I recommend you find someone else to pick it up from here forward and I'll provide them with whatever background information they need" to a problem client. Similarly it gives the client the right/opportunity to find someone else if they're dissatisfied with me after doing Phase I.

Assuming that's not the case, I'd review your contract carefully. Do you have the right to terminate contract for non-conformance to timetable? If so, you could possibly consider kicking them off the job and finding someone else, but (1) that's messy and (2) the "new" G.C. might not be any better.

Best of luck.

[nostatic]

SOP for all the contractors I've seen. We were lucky in that we found a really good/honest/reliable guy back in Claremont and he gave us the name/number of his subs. We would call them for small stuff and it got done quickly. Thankfully we never did a big remodel. Our friends/neighbors did though. All disasters wrt timeline. The guy 2 doors down had a 2nd floor added. Took almost 2 YEARS to complete. The subs would show up one day, then disappear for 2 weeks. Went on like that forever.

I'd say you ***** and moan to the GC and say that you'll pull the plug and find someone who can get the job done in a timely fashion. I'm guessing though that due to where you live this is "prime" building weather so guys are busy.

[Flatbutt1]

Sounds like I'm in for a long haul. The only bargaining chip I can see is that my contract has "loose" language about the timing of the job, referring to it as "a reasonable time frame for completion". NJ law requires that the contract stipulate a start date and an end date or at least a period of time for completion of the work. My contract does not really meet those requirements. Yes I was less informed than I should have been. But this may constitute a violative contract and could provide me some leverage if I choose to go that way. My verbal discussions(yes useless in court) on timings were on the order of 8 to 10 weeks so we're not there yet. They could swarm me with workers and finish in that time frame so I'm going to wait and see.

But I can't find any legislation that would allow me to withold funds from the payment schedule in case of a dispute. Anyone know anything about that?

ahttp://www.njsbf.com/njsbf/publications/construction.cfmer

[URY914]

I work for a major commerical contractor and we have people hold payments for all kinds of reasons. A dispute in and of itself is enough to hold payment.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

Set it up like the government does with bonuses for speedy completion. Otherwise, there's no time incentive at all, particularly if there is another job that *does* have incentives.

-Wayne

that is what I did with the sale of my house, commission went down the longer it was on the market

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Flatbutt1

Sounds like I'm in for a long haul. The only bargaining chip I can see is that my contract has "loose" language about the timing of the job, referring to it as "a reasonable time frame for completion". NJ law requires that the contract stipulate a start date and an end date or at least a period of time for completion of the work. My contract does not really meet those requirements. Yes I was less informed than I should have been. But this may constitute a violative contract and could provide me some leverage if I choose to go that way. My verbal discussions(yes useless in court) on timings were on the order of 8 to 10 weeks so we're not there yet. They could swarm me with workers and finish in that time frame so I'm going to wait and see.

But I can't find any legislation that would allow me to withold funds from the payment schedule in case of a dispute. Anyone know anything about that?

ahttp://www.njsbf.com/njsbf/publications/construction.cfmer

You said you contract is short on details. Actually, here is CA, that would be a serious problem for the contractor, not you. I suggest getting on the Net and reading NJ contractors' law. I wouldn't worry a bit about not keeping up with the payment schedule. Our law stipulates no more than 10% down, or $1000, whichever is less, and no more than 95% of the value of completed work to be drawn against. IOW, you should be holding the cards until the final walk through.

I'll bet your law is similar. Knowing the law and your rights is good offense. Now, the last thing you want to do is act like a lawyer when you get this information. You can be subtle while negotiating the details left out, like hard completion dates.

If the contract is not complete, it's not a contract and you can break it. Howwever, in CA, verbal contracts will stand up in court. So, it's a matter of witnesses and who said what to whom. You don't really want to go there, but you need to know where the boundaries are.

Here's what I'd do: I'd set up an appointment on neutral ground. Maybe buy the guy a good hamburger and talk things out. No beer. If he comes across sincere, maybe you will find out what his problem is. If he promises to get on the ball and then doesn't, it's not likely he ever will. Fire him at that point. Document everything. Try to get a transcript of your meeting through a prearranged eavesdropper. Do not take your wife and do not show emotion.

Oh, and one more thing, it's illegal to commingle funds from various jobs. He has to be able to show you that YOUR material bills are PAID on time. Same with his subs and his own employees. You should obtain a labor and materials release form subs and materials release from any material delivered including mixed concrete.

A lot of this will scare away many contractors. At times, I think it's just too much trouble and look elsewhere. I know I'm honest, but sometimes the customer has reasons of their own to want all the i's dotted and t's crossed. It's hard enough to find a contractor that is competent, much less run him through the ringer.

It's definitely a 2-way street, so politeness and good communication go along way to getting the job done.

Hey, just thought of this. On my last job, every Saturday we worked, we were treated to a modest yet catered lunch. That went a huge distance toward bring up morale and mutual respect. Again, there was no alcohol.

[Flatbutt1]

Thanks Milt. Good ideas in there. I'll try to keep it all level But firing this guy and bringing in another at this point would be a nightmare. But I'll try to play nice.


Just to top off my furor, I got home today and found that one of the workers had swiped the remaining pillow blocks leftover from the foundation. Maybe only $50 worth but it sure pi$$ed me off. The neighbor watched him do it. Should I bar him from the jobsite? I think so.

[vash]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

Set it up like the government does with bonuses for speedy completion. Otherwise, there's no time incentive at all, particularly if there is another job that *does* have incentives.

-Wayne

too late for this..btw, it is called an "A+B" contract. A is the cost, B is the time. this happens at bid time, not once the gig is started.

i like milt's words. he described my job. except the catered lunch part

[vash]

good luck flatbutt! it will be worth it in the end!
milt, you should just contract out to be PM on these types of projects! add 5% to the cost. sorta like a wedding planner for home remodels...

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by vash

good luck flatbutt! it will be worth it in the end!
milt, you should just contract out to be PM on these types of projects! add 5% to the cost. sorta like a wedding planner for home remodels...

I'd do that in a heartbeat, but there are 2 obstacles. One is the lack of start up projects and the other is the greed thing I keep mentioning. A decent remodel today will run anywhere from 100K to 300K. Of course that are exceptions at either end, but that is where the bulk is. So, 5 to 15K for an adviser (OK, call it a PM) buys a lot of cabinets.

Most people think they can do this on their own. BTW, do you know the percentage of homeowners that will do more than one major remodel in their lifetime? It's not that many, let me tell you. They think they can handle it then they suffer the consequences. The next time they just buy what the need already in place, which, of course, is the best way.

I said I major remodel. Painting and new floors is not what I call a remodel. Neither is a significant landscaping job, something we all need periodically.

[Flatbutt1]

You're right on Milt, I'm in for over 100K. Never thought I could do this one(remember the foundation nightmare?) so went and got what I thought was a good contractor. The price was only 20K higher than the next closest one but my current guy is the only one that wanted to touch the job.

I think he may be over committed and just can't cover all of his responsibilities. Shouldn't be MY problem but there it is.

[msk1986911]

Comparatively speaking, we had the easiest remodeling experience. Last summer, we had a2-story addition, each being 16' X 18', cement foundation, block walls for the lower level; 16' X 12' poured patio and 16' 12' deck off the 2nd floor. From start to finish, it took no more than 3 months, with only a few changes due to: more excavation work than anticipated; a waste drain in the way of where an entrance to the basement had to be and a crack in the driveway caused by the cement contractor's equipment (he claimed it was like that when he got there). All in all, not a bad experience. My wife got the new family room and I got a dedicated work shop, which translates into not having to move the 911 when I need to do the simplest of tasks.

[look 171]

I know its too late now, for those that are going down that road, ask how big their crew is, and how many proj, they have going. Go visit them. If he has too many jobs opened up, and no one working on them during the week, run like hell. I take on 2. Maybe 3 if one is finishing up. I am talking clean up stage or painting.

If a home owner ask way too many questions like Milt said, take me throught the ringer, I would walk or bid really high so I don't have to work for them. I don't need the bashing. I just can't picture what it would be like once the jobs gets going. People who don't trust us, don't need us.

flatbutt,

Why is it that the other guys didn't want the job?

Jeff

[VINMAN]

Thanks for not lumping me in with the rest of them! This is the #1 complaint I hear from customers. As matter of fact, I just finished completing a job that the last contractor vanished from. The moron just never came back. Even with money owed to him.

I'm not that up on the laws except for the basics. NJ law requires all contracts to have a WRITTEN ( not verbal) start and completion date. If those dates are to change a new contract has be written up. From what I see, I dont think you have much recourse witholding funds due to the fact that you only paid for what was already completed and the end of completion date is still some time away. Even then, the law allows some reasonable "leeway". There is a law called the NJ Prompt Payment Act. It states the payment requirements to contractors , both public and private.

Personally I would threaten them with a call to NJ Consumer Affairs. No reason to be a nice guy here. Its bull$hit that "contractors" pull crap like this. You need to be aggressive. Like somone else said they probably have other jobs going on beside yours. I never take on a project I cant handle, ability or timewise.

Yeah I'd be pissed about the pillow blocks. They are yours. You paid for them. I would ask for them back just out of principle.

Good luck, let me know if I can help you in anyway.

[vash]

Originally Posted by milt

I'd do that in a heartbeat, but there are 2 obstacles. One is the lack of start up projects and the other is the greed thing I keep mentioning. A decent remodel today will run anywhere from 100K to 300K. Of course that are exceptions at either end, but that is where the bulk is. So, 5 to 15K for an adviser (OK, call it a PM) buys a lot of cabinets.

Most people think they can do this on their own. BTW, do you know the percentage of homeowners that will do more than one major remodel in their lifetime? It's not that many, let me tell you. They think they can handle it then they suffer the consequences. The next time they just buy what the need already in place, which, of course, is the best way.

I said I major remodel. Painting and new floors is not what I call a remodel. Neither is a significant landscaping job, something we all need periodically.

good points. i thought folks in LA, all oozing with cash like to farm out everything. like the prev mentioned wedding planner, professional organizers, car brokers,agents..the list goes on. when i do my remodel..big WHEN, i will probably DIY the management part. my house will be small scale to my job, but i hope the concept is the same. i will pay the money for an architect, and designer tho. and that would buy alot of cabinets also.

[Zeke]

Cliff, don't forget the engineer. Big part of today's project. My last job involved an engineer that was not dovetailed too well with the architect. And, when you say "designer" do you mean inFerior decorator? Otherwise, your architect IS your designer.