Can our cars run on 100% Ethanol? Mmmmmm goood beeeer

[johncmng]

Can our air coolers run on 100% Ethanol? Just wondering. I can fill'er up and get drunk with out driving to the package store.

http://gizmodo.com/388542/microfueler-home-ethanol-pump-unveiled-ready-for-pre+orders

[johncmng]

I wonder how many kegs of beer or wine can I brew with this thing?

[richemj]

Not sure about pure ethanol, but, there is a lot of talk on the turbo site talking about modding to use E85, more readily accessible. They are looking at the higher Octane (100+) and higher effectivey CRs they can run using it (more boost!). Lots of discussions on problems pushing alcohol through CIS systems and other good topics. Biggest hangup is the need for more volume (40% more) for equivilant AFR...see link below.

E85 Ethanol Fueled TURBO Motor

[Porsche-O-Phile]

IIRC it will eat rubber fuel lines and seals.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

IIRC it will eat rubber fuel lines and seals.

Yes.

Jeff and I should know.

[Mule]

Race cars do it all the time. You'll need different injectors (alcohol has no lubricating properties) and some significant fuel system modifications plus some reprogramming. You can however turn the boost way up, if you have any.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Actually, a CIS 911 might be a pretty straightforward conversion. Most of the fuel lines are neoprene and the injectors are pretty bulletproof. Not much rubber in the system (there are some rubber flex lines that would need to be replaced/upgraded) and obviously the CIS would need to be re-calibrated but I think it might be feasible. . .

Let's see:

- Tank lining is straight metal, so should be okay as-is.
- Sending unit is capacitive, so should be okay as-is. Seal might need replacing.
- Tank seals at fuel line & vent (?)
- Flexible fuel lines at fuel pump should be replaced (the hard supply line should be okay)
- Probably will require a different fuel pump ($$$)
- Hard line from pump to engine bay should be okay as-is
- Accumulator (?) Connections should be okay as-is.
- Fuel filter connections should be okay.
- Neoprene line from engine bay to CIS - should be okay as-is.
- CIS o-ring (at base of fuel dizzy) should be replaced (it's rubber IIRC).
- CIS fuel dizzy, plunger, lines & injectors should be okay as-is.
- Cold start valve line - neoprene (fine).
- Warm-up regulator line, same story.
- Replace flexible return line w/ neoprene to connection at hardline.

[Mule]

I think mixture adjustment is somewhat of an issue on CIS huh? Oh yeah you need almost 2x the fuel stops. But you can make power! No intercoolers necessary either.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Big question is whether the CIS could be adjusted enough to compensate. I think the mechanism of it is simple enough (one of the things I love about it) but I just wonder if you'll run out of adjustment range before you get C2H5OH stoich. . .

Only one way to find out I guess. Someone has to do it.

Guess it's time to start looking into alcohol-compatible fuel pumps & accumulators. The fuel lines I have (I bought almost $200 worth of various-size hard plastic metric fuel hose from D&S a few weeks ago. . .)

Could be very interesting.

[Aerkuld]

We used to use methanol in the CART engines which could do some real mischief if you didn't use the right materials for your seals etc. It would even corrode un-treated aluminum if left for a while. I guess the other problem is the horrible sticky residue it leaves behind when it evaporates. Engines being shipped or stored had to be 'pickled' by running on gasoline for a period of time before shutting down to get all the methanol out of the system. Looking at the charts in the links below it looks as though ethanol is much more material friendly.

http://www.efunda.com/DesignStandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SM=none&SC=Methanol


http://www.efunda.com/DesignStandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SM=none&SC=Ethanol#mat

[DMRK]

Methanol is the bad one.

I have been running e85 for about 10 months now in my 944. I love, it runs great! 105 octane and $1 less a gallon. Takes a little to warm up if it is cold though, but if i mix in some unleaded (5 gal) it is all good.

I had to increase the fuel pressure and adjust the DME to 6% rich.

I am not sure how to do it on a CIS car (yet) but I think it could be done.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Could you describe the specifics of the conversion for the 944? I may do this on mine also. Besides, I still have a lot of turbo parts sitting around from my dearly departed 951 that aren't doing anything at the moment. . .

[Jims5543]

We have 2 (know to me) places in Florida that sells E85, IIRC it has an octane rating of 100+ (maybe 105??) and a friend of mine with a Turbo RX7 bought up a bunch of it. They retuned the car for it, way advanced timing, higher boost and more fuel on the maps. He runs a Wolf 3D EMS.

From what I have been told the car is an animal. Its an amazing transition from premium 93 octane pump gas and again, IIRC, it costs over $1 a gallon less than 93.

[DMRK]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Could you describe the specifics of the conversion for the 944? I may do this on mine also. Besides, I still have a lot of turbo parts sitting around from my dearly departed 951 that aren't doing anything at the moment. . .

Pretty easy really.

What you need is an adjustable FPR and a gauge to read the fuel pressure and that is it. I installed a narrow band fuel ratio gauge and spliced it in to the O2 sensor, but its not needed.

IIRC I increased my fuel pressure to around 40-45 psi. The only other thing you need to do is to adjust your QFS to 6% rich.

[myfast911]

how about running it in a car with carbs.would love to read any info you guys mights have on that. thanks rgm

[Normy]

Where in Florida are these E85 stations?

N

[Normy]

DMRK-

You haven't had any problems with seals or anything have you? No leaks anywhere? What I am wondering about is the short section of rubber tube that connects the fuel rails to the injectors on my '85 928.

I suspect that these are probably ethanol-proof. Any ideas? Are your injectors clamped to the rails or are they like mine, connected with a short section of tube and a pair of screw clamps?

If there's an E85 station near me in Fort Liquordale, I'll probably try this, since I already have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator installed.

N

PS: Odd question...but does the exhaust have any sort of different odor?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

No problems with fuel pump degradation?

[DMRK]

I have not had any problems with any fuel lines, seals or fuel pump, none.
The injectors are clamped to the fuel rail.
The odor is different for sure, kind of sweet. I actually think it smeels good, even better than normal gas .