The end of free WVO:

[speeder]

This was inevitable:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/30/us/30grease.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=stealing+grease+oil+prices+burger+king&st=nyt&oref=slogin

[notfarnow]

yeppers.

I had an awesome source, ~20 gallons a week of great oil in 5 gallon pails. Picked it up every monday. I was happy, the restaurant was happy. Then some flake-job started showing up and asking for it, saying he knew me and "it was cool". To make thinge worse, he was going in at suppertime when they were busy and annoying them. So, the restaurant owner cut us off and went to the regular rendering company.

I've got a great source now though, and I think I've talked them into a 2 year contract. On my end, I'm going to do some promotional stuff and news bits for them.

But yeah, competition is on the way. It's getting goofy in California, from what I've heard. Fistfights, arrests behind restaurants. lol

[sketchers356]

How did the flake job know about you?

[Danny_Ocean]

News Flash: If anyone believes there's enough fryer grease to power the nation's fleet of vehicles...

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by sketchers356

How did the flake job know about you?

Good question. Small town, he must know someone who knows someone...

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

News Flash: If anyone believes there's enough fryer grease to power the nation's fleet of vehicles...

I've been into this for 5+ years, and I've never run across ANYONE who thinks that. There are people who think it will always be free though, and they are getting a rude awakening... soon.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

I've been into this for 5+ years, and I've never run across ANYONE who thinks that.

How many gallons of oil does a super-tanker hold? Now, how may deep fryers will it take to fill up a super-tanker? How many super-tankers arrive in the U.S. every day? There ain't enough animal fat to go around to fill all those tankers. Better start making more cows!

From Wiki: Production levels

Biodiesel production capacity is growing rapidly, with an average annual growth rate from 2002-2006 of over 40%. For the year 2006, the latest for which actual production figures could be obtained, total world biodiesel production was about 5-6 million tonnes, with 4.9 million tonnes processed in Europe (of which 2.7 million tonnes was from Germany) and most of the rest from the USA. The capacity for 2007 in Europe totalled 10.3 million tonnes. This compares with a total demand for diesel in the US and Europe of approximately 490 million tonnes (147 billion gallons). Total world production of vegetable oil for all purposes in 2005/06 was about 110 million tonnes, with about 34 million tonnes each of palm oil and soybean oil.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

How many gallons of oil does a super-tanker hold? Now, how may deep fryers will it take to fill up a super-tanker? How many super-tankers arrive in the U.S. every day? There ain't enough animal fat to go around to fill all those tankers. Better start making more cows!

Who are you trying to convince?

FWIW, here's a much funnier article about cooking oil that was posted on one of the veggie car forums:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C05%5C24%5Cstory_24-5-2008_pg9_10

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

Who are you trying to convince?

All the geniuses who believe bio-diesel is the answer.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

All the geniuses who believe bio-diesel is the answer.

Ok, go find them and tell 'em!

[legion]

No, cooking oil will never be the answer, but it can't hurt either.

The advantage to running a car on cooking oil is that it doesn't divert the product from its original use--it supplements it...whereas ethanol does not.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

Ok, go find them and tell 'em!

I just did.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by legion

No, cooking oil will never be the answer, but it can't hurt either.

The advantage to running a car on cooking oil is that it doesn't divert the product from its original use--it supplements it...whereas ethanol does not.

I concur.

My comment was directed to those who think they're going to live happily ever after on bio-diesel. Once it becomes "mainstream", the price will equal/exceed gasoline. There just ain't enough to go around. The raw material is already $2.50/gal. (see above article).

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by legion

No, cooking oil will never be the answer, but it can't hurt either.

The advantage to running a car on cooking oil is that it doesn't divert the product from its original use--it supplements it...whereas ethanol does not.

Bingo.

Like everything else, there are people on either end of the spectrum who think it the best or worst thing since Goerge Bush/Al Gore invented/caused global warming.

But if you ignore the wingnuts on either side, you'll see that the truth is in the grey area in between.

Even the food vs fuel debate is kinda skewed. Biodiesel incentives would undoubtedly bring imported palm & canola oil from dunious places like hacked out rainforests. But in my province, farmers struggle to make a living and their lands are underutilized. Growing canola for biodiesel could allow them to stay in business to grow food.

Short answer: it depends.

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

I just did.

ha, funny. I don't think you know me very well

[sketchers356]

Danny Ocean apparently likes to debate himself.

[legion]

Originally Posted by sketchers356

Danny Ocean apparently likes to debate himself.

He is a master debater and a cunning linguist.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

One of our clients is a major fast food restaurant chain. The grease interceptors installed on their facilities are typically 1,500 gallon units which get pumped out about every week or two. That's a helluva lot of grease. Certainly not enough to power the nation, but a staggering amount nonetheless. I imagine the "grease-pumper-outer" companies will be seeing a market for the removed product soon. Probably a good business to get into - get paid by the restaurants to pump out their interceptors and then get paid by a third party for the sludge. Not bad.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

The grease interceptors installed on their facilities are typically 1,500 gallon units which get pumped out about every week or two.

Typical gas station has multiple 10,000 gal. tanks which get emptied every 3 days or so (for a busy station).

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Yea, I know - not saying that it'd ever be a major source of fuel for the masses, but just saying there is a significant amount of the crap produced. Of the sludge that gets collected, I don't know how much (% wise) would even represent usable fuel in a biodiesel conversion. But it's probably enough for a few cars every week or two.

Those things get really disgusting. One look in one and you'll never eat fast food again.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

One of our clients is a major fast food restaurant chain. The grease interceptors installed on their facilities are typically 1,500 gallon units which get pumped out about every week or two. That's a helluva lot of grease. Certainly not enough to power the nation, but a staggering amount nonetheless. I imagine the "grease-pumper-outer" companies will be seeing a market for the removed product soon. Probably a good business to get into - get paid by the restaurants to pump out their interceptors and then get paid by a third party for the sludge. Not bad.

No question, it's those rendering companies and transport co's who will be the first to really pinch the supply. Even smaller independent truckers are catching on. I was talking to a guy last week who wants me to convert his company's 2006 6.4 powerstroke. He figured that even if he went through an engine every second year, he's still be WAY ahead. A couple guys like that in one town, and the supply dries up quick.

People are even moving away from the term "waste" vegetable oil... it's hardly a "waste" product if there are people willing to buy it. There are restaurants being PAID for their used oil already, even locally here. I expect to be paying within a year or two.

Side note: I'm going to a regional get-together tomorrow for people who do used oil conversions and biodiesel. I'll snap some pics... they range from $500 beaters to 40k pickups. A couple unimogs too. Neat stuff, even to see how they convert the vehicles. From "Home Depot" conversions done by hippies, to 3k fully automated systems.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Those things get really disgusting. One look in one and you'll never eat fast food again.

Heh, in my quest for nice used oil, I've seen some pretty gross stuff. There are some restaurants I won't eat at anymore.