Who Hates America the Most?

[Superman]

Libs have been villified for their criticisms. They have criticized the Bush "administration" in a number of areas. That number is a vast number indeed. For this criticism, they have been marked as terrorists and traitors and America-haters. Of course, the response is that they care about America, expect the best from her and want to participate in her increasing greatness. I honestly believe that.

And then I come here. I don't see a lot of liberals here lambasting White House policy. Sure, we disagree with it but when is the last time you saw one of us get up in the morning and start a thread just to call somebody names and post cartoons and caricatures? We see this daily from the conservatives. Just like clockwork. Mule.....daily......dreams up two or three thread to start that have one purpose: Whine. Talk about how bad something is. Talk about what an idiot so-and-so is. Never a constructive post.

So......who puts the most energy into outlining what's wrong in America? Liberals? Or Mule?

[m21sniper]

I don't think Liberals are viewed as 'traitors' (by some) because of their criticisms of Bush. I think Liberals are viewed as 'traitors' (by some) because of the total liberal package.

I think many conservatives feel the liberal movement has become something that is a direct affront to the values they feel the US was built on, and should represent covet and protect.

Hard work, making something of yourself, responsibility, 'morals', independence from government interference.

IMO most conservatives view liberals as "lazy, naive, bleeding heart, moral-less socialist do-gooders who openly support our enemies during times of war". So of course a liberal is viewed as a traitor by a conservative.

I mean, duh.

[rouxroux]

That's easy....michelle.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

This is an interesting topic. Republicans on this board are complainers more than anything and rarely offer thoughts on how to fix something. You never really see a Republican saying how they would fix things, no details, just the vague mantra "lower taxes and decrease spending" which isn't really a plan. it's just more whining.

I don't mind the cartoons so much. It's their way of saying, "whoa, I can't handle complex reasoning, please dumb down your own thoughts so I can understand and then make fun of you."

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

This is an interesting topic. Republicans on this board are complainers more than anything and rarely offer thoughts on how to fix something. You never really see a Republican saying how they would fix things, no details, just the vague mantra "lower taxes and decrease spending" which isn't really a plan. it's just more whining.

I don't mind the cartoons so much. It's their way of saying, "whoa, I can't handle complex reasoning, please dumb down your own thoughts so I can understand and then make fun of you."

Ok, Sparky, you're up: What have you to offer, specifically, besides hope and change.

I'm a Libertarian, so I've got answers

[Jim Richards]

Term limits for Congress and prison for neo-cons.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Ok, Sparky, you're up: What have you to offer, specifically, besides hope and change.

I'm a Libertarian, so I've got answers

I'll start off with my well-publicized plan for tackling illegal immigration:

1. For every illegal alien caught, no matter the circumstances, we bill the Mexican government for all costs associated with deporting each alien. I would privatize this and make cost + fee contracts the standard.

2. If/when Mexico doesn't pay, the $ are just deducted from foreign aid packages or added to a tariff outside of NAFTA

3. Every business caught employing illegal aliens is fined 2X the industry/regional standard annual salary for every year that alien was employed, no pro-rate, so if employed for 13 months, the company is still fined for 2 years of salary.

4. Companies found employeeing illegal aliens cannot bid on or receive government contracts for 5 years after discovery

5. 2-tier tax credit for business:
1. If you are in an industry that typically hires foreign labor, you get an XX% tax credit for every American citizen you employ that would normally be filled by an immigrant
2. You get a X% credit for every legal immigrant you hire

6. All illegal aliens must go back to Mexico and apply for legal, temporary status. This would work in concert with businesses here in the states who would determine who is here illegally, pay for their bus trip back to Mexico, get the temporary status paperwork completed, get them back to work. See above on tax credit.

7. All illegal aliens back in the States must attend business/government sponsored U.S. History and English classes for 1 year.



Of course this plan would not pass as is, but it's something that if I were a Congressman, I'd have some cute page put some meat on the bones and get to work on passing it.

let me know if you'd like me to post more of how I would save America.

[nostatic]

flat tax or serious reform

remove tax exemption from churches

another vote for penalizing companies who employ undocumented workers

start a "manhattan project/moon landing/etc" scale effort around total energy independence without mucking up the environment (it can be done).

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

This is an interesting topic. Republicans on this board are complainers more than anything and rarely offer thoughts on how to fix something. You never really see a Republican saying how they would fix things, no details, just the vague mantra "lower taxes and decrease spending" which isn't really a plan. it's just more whining.

I don't mind the cartoons so much. It's their way of saying, "whoa, I can't handle complex reasoning, please dumb down your own thoughts so I can understand and then make fun of you."

I don't see you running for President, or putting out a point by point agenda!

[Jim Richards]

1) pay off our deficit / debt, then...
2) energy policy, transportation & infrastructure for this century.

Of course, by the time 1) is done, 2) will be next century.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I don't see you running for President, or putting out a point by point agenda!

you haven't? I've posted it many times. agreed, not as detailed as I would like, but it's a start.

My 3-point, improve the State of the Nation plan consists of:

A national high-speed data infrastructure necessary to keep our businesses competitive in a global market and all of our citizens, from the the inner city poor to the suburbar middle class connected, informed, and educated at rates 60 times our current infrastructure.

A "Transportation Energy Independence" program on the scale of The New Deal, Tennessee Valley, Man on the Moon such that 5 years we will reduce our dependence on foreign oil for transportation by 35%.

A topshelf education system in which teachers are held accountable and the very best ones are just breaking 6 figures, every student has a computer that is theirs to keep, every student has books, music class and fully funded after-school programs.

Some of my social programs include:

All senior-level high school kids take a mandatory gun safety class

All junior-level high school kids take a mandatory parenting class (beginner in Spring) followed by Fall (senior) intermediate and Spring advanced classes.

Working with religious groups, a 10-year program designed to foster a culture of adoption rather than of abortion. this unfortunately would mix church and state in co-run government/religious order homes for girls needing a healthy environment bringing their child to full term. need to work on that.

Complete overhaul of all entitlement programs which currently make you FEEL like you are one thing, but don't give you the tools to actually BE that thing. All entitlement programs would be reworked to end or at least degrade the cycles that they themselves propagate. Achievement must be integrated into each and every one.




these are just a few of things I've posted in the past in my future bid for the Presidency. Many of them I've posted more detail, but don't seem to have put them in my Word doc.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

these are just a few of things I've posted in the past in my future bid for the Presidency. Many of them I've posted more detail, but don't seem to have put them in my Word doc.

Nice job...what next, 'War and Peace"?

So, we all agree. We must shrink spending while simultaneously funding our pet projects

I am unfortunately in Muchstatics camp, with a dash of term limits.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Nice job...what next, 'War and Peace"?

So, we all agree. We must shrink spending while simultaneously funding our pet projects

I am unfortunately in Muchstatics camp, with a dash of term limits.

thanks, but I've still got to post my Ike-like plans for the MIC.

Funding things? I think tax credits against volunteerism will pay huge dividends. SCORE, and other similar programs work on altruism alone. What if you could share your expertise and get a credit as well? Bribing people to be good citizens may not be the best idea, but worth looking into.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Hard work, making something of yourself, responsibility, 'morals', independence from government interference.

What about independence from your neighbor's interference?

BOTH sides are trying desperately to interfere with what their neighbor is doing. BOTH sides are WRONG.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by nostatic

start a "manhattan project/moon landing/etc" scale effort around total energy independence without mucking up the environment (it can be done).

sooner it is started the sooner it is complete

It seems to me, that people have been dissatisfied with their gubmint for some time, but it seems to continue deteriorating

This thread was nothing like I thought it would be, given who started it and the title. WTF is it with the one star stuff, that is so chickinschit

[9dreizig]

Congratulation Shaun,,you're a conservative!!! LOL

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

...
A topshelf education system in which teachers are held accountable and the very best ones are just breaking 6 figures, every student has a computer that is theirs to keep, every student has books, music class and fully funded after-school programs.

Hmmm, this is the one I disagree with most (not because I don't believe in education), but because it doesn't fit with your last paragraph about achievement vs entitlement. I would suggest that the people held accountable are the students, and teachers would be rewarded by having students that want to learn from them (ie the students want good grades, they go to the best teacher - something well known in most school districts. Teachers could be paid on the basis of # of student-class years they are teaching - ie 30 students x trigonometry x 1 yr = 30 student-class years). How to make students accountable? Turn off the money. Achievement is rewarded. You can't pass basic math/language/science classes, you don't continue in the public schools - just like in many other countries.

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

...
Some of my social programs include:

All senior-level high school kids take a mandatory gun safety class

Why? The vast majority of the pop does not own weapons. OTOH a mandatory business class about compounding interest, credit cards, etc would be much more useful.

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

...
Complete overhaul of all entitlement programs which currently make you FEEL like you are one thing, but don't give you the tools to actually BE that thing. All entitlement programs would be reworked to end or at least degrade the cycles that they themselves propagate. Achievement must be integrated into each and every one.

[livi]

I feel, at this point, a prudent prophylactic denial is in place: Sweden does not hate America. We love you!

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by livi

I feel, at this point, a prudent prophylactic denial is in place: Sweden does not hate America. We love you!

And we love your women.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Nice job...what next, 'War and Peace"?

So, we all agree. We must shrink spending while simultaneously funding our pet projects

I am unfortunately in Muchstatics camp, with a dash of term limits.

Nixon, Reagan and the Bush's all talked of shirking spending but like all so called conservatives had the most expensive fetish (pet project), war and the preparation for war.

Remove the death fetish and we will talk.