If you can ban two men from marrying...then potentially you can ban a man of one race from marrying a woman of another. Or ban people of different religions from marrying.

Government should NOT interfere with relationships in the bedroom. There is NO place for government to tell us who we can marry, male, female, same sex, opposite sex. This is pure and simple an intrusion by religion into our secular government, and it will be changed eventually. California tonight recognizes same-sex marriage. 63% of Americans in a recent USAToday poll believe the same. It is only a matter of time before the Federal government realizes this and does the same.

-I'm proud of this fact: Despite 27 years of Republican/Conservative control of government...we are still making progress on social issues, and slowly but surely pushing christian religion out of popular culture. My prediction is that gay marriage/gay rights will be totally affirmed in the next Presidential term, and that any doubt about the secular nature of our government will be totally squashed!

N!

And you think Europeans are smart?

They're the ones that wrote the ME map to begin with. That started slavery. That fought 10 gillion wars for 10 gillion stupid reasons. That have burdened themselves with unsustainable socialist gov'ts and totally disarmed themsevles. These are the people that invented communism and fascism. They're the ones with failing populations due to low birth rates. They're the ones with truly epic immigration and assimilation problems.

What's smart about that? OK, so they build nice cars, but beyond that, i don't get what's to admire....

It shouldn't sanction them either. IMO the entire notion of marriage is quite stupid to begin with. The state should have no involvement at all. There should be no legal benefits or penalties. Being married should have zero bearing on the gubmints view of it's citizenry.

Reassess your priorities, i'm sure you can find the time. :D

Some loving christians at work:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm

N

Really?

-Perhaps you can say that to the partner of the man who lays dying in the hospital....sitting in the waiting room because he isn't considered a relative. His partner dies alone, while he sits alone. "Government shouldn't sanction" you say? That's ridiculous. How would you feel if your wife was dying, and they wouldn't let you near her because you'd lost your wallet and had no ID to prove that you were her husband? How would you feel if the doctor came down and said to you: "Sorry, she died. You can talk to the receptionist if you want to send flowers to the family"

Are you really Randy V in disguise or something? Think before you post!

N!

Very well put Sammy.

last time i was in a hospital visiting a dying person nobody asked if i was a relative. it only mattered that i cared enough to be there.

and surely the hospital wasn't taking cues on who to let in from filing status options on form 1040.

Marriage to me is nothing more than a suicidal financial pact(for one partner). You don't need to be married to someone to hold their hand as they die. I've been there when a friend died. I had no problems getting in to say goodbye.

Marriage in the USA is about money, plain and simple. Why would anyone even want the government involved in the business of who they love? I certainly don't.

Religion is the basis of all kinds of policies and laws. Surely you cannot be that blind my friend.

ALL the separation clause prohibits is the US favoring one religion over the other, ie, a "state religion."

That's it. It has no other purpose or intent except to prevent an American "Church of England" type of scenario. Trying to read into the separation clause that men can not legislate based on their own moral and religious beliefs is a total misinterpretation of the intent of the separation clause.

Sniper, you are smarter than this! You have got to be kidding!!!

Europeans did not start slavery. By any of their actions.

Most major European countries are doing at least as well as America is.

Most of Europes wars were religious in nature. So all that shows us is that religion is the major cause of war.

You need to travel a bit more before harping on their socialist societies. They actually work pretty well. Look at the current ranking of countries by GNP.

1) US
2) China
3) Japan
4) India
5) Germany
6) UK
7) Russia
8) France
9) Brazil
10) Italy

And if you count the European Union, it would rank above the US. You will notice several countries are ranked quite high with only a small fraction of our population and resources. Hardly failing!

And most of these countries do not have rampant illegal immegration anywhere near the level of what the US problem is.

And this bit: "They're the ones with truly epic immigration violence and assimilation problems", like that does not happen here? And are their problems greater than ours? Evidence please.

Please try to learn some history. And then travel a lot more. Many of these countries have solved problems that the US is still trying to. And of course, the US has solved some problems the Europeans are still stuggling with. But it is hardly the one way street you think. :rolleyes:

If they weren't tail gunners, he wouldn't be dying of AIDs. You can take the steps, yes, you have to take a few extra steps, to have your mate with you.

Biting here would totally hijack this thread.

You brought these subjects up, so this must be your attempt to dodge. :eek:

Are you on heavy drugs? Even a daft person understood what I said and who I was referring to, but you obviously didn't.

Ah ha! You are NOT a pawn in this game after all! I agree 100%. Either give all people equal rights in this arena, or recognize that a relationship should involve ONLY the people in the relationship, not anyone else...not their family, not their neighbors, and for sure, not the government, for it is not the place of the government to decide who you will live your life with and how.

I know how you feel. When I first came here (as a durn forner at that too) I naively ended up on the wrong side of a gun debate. Felt pretty bad. I have since then got to know this crowd and with very few exceptions they are all very nice, intelligent and well spoken and I would buy them all beer if they ever came to Sweden.

Welcome to PPOT! SmileWavy

If i'm ever going to travel, it will be to Sweden, not Vietnam. :D

Thanks. I guess..?

Or is it an analogy for "If I am ever going to accidentally shoot myself, it will be in the foot, not the head.? :D

I would definitely like to visit Sweden. Vietnam...not so much.

sniper, what time is it in Philly anyway? Seven a.m? First things first after waking up - PPOT! :D

It's "oh dark thirty!" :-P

You are proud..... I am embarrassed. Progress?.... IMO, this country is getting worse, not better due to your "progress" and FWIW, I am not a religious person.

We outlaw various sexual deviations in this country. It seems the liberals in the country want to make an exception for homosexuality because it is the most common sexual deviation (and a decent part of their voting block). In the matter of civil rights, though, the size of the population does not matter. Therefore, if you legalize gay marriage then what is to stop those who happen to enjoy other sexual deviations from demanding the same treatment? As it is, the government officially condones marriage between and man and a woman, nothing else. Once you change that standard, how can the government legally say that it's ok for a man and a man to marry, but not a man and a child? They are two people in love...that's the standard now, right?