Good thoughts on both ends. I really enjoy a debate when I read posts that totally baffles me, whether I agree or not.

Like I started out, to me, marriage is an overrated ancient institution with a religious base and legal implications that has nothing to do with love or affection. Its a piece of paper. Those inclined should be able to do it, gay or not. It has absolutely no importance to me whether two men or women are married or not. Their life. Live and let live. We are, after all, talking about two adult persons - which of course is crucial in this debate. I am not talking about children.

So once Christians become a minority in the U.S. will you be as vocal about protecting their rights? As compassionate to them as you are to gays?

but that argument is more about gender issues than sexual orientation. physical sexual features do not equate to gender, the sooner people realize that, the better.
Just because a man has a penis does not mean he cannot fulfill the gender role of a woman and vice versa...

We now have front line combat troops that are women...are they gay? or butch? Not the one I know.

The reason marriage cannot be extended to children or animals is that you must be able to enter a legal contract. Why do people get hung up on the kids & animals deal?

I'm not sure there is a logical reason to restrict it to two people however. It just sounds way too complicated to me on a personal relationship level!

It used to be in this fine country a marriage could not be obtained if there was evidence available that one person was of even non-obvious African descent and the other wasn't. I am glad to see we are making progress, although it is slow.

And give me a break about the children angle. How many kids have a life of hell with heterosexual parents? The typical homosexual couple won't have 'accidental' kids and must go through a lot more effort (i.e. the kids are wanted) to build a family.

Holy cow; where do you come up with this stuff? Do you just make it up as you go? I asked you to back up some similarly wild claims back on page one. Have you come up with anything yet?

Wow, this thread has it all!

Markus does it again. :)

so a man who stays at home, taking care of the kids (IE Mr Mom) is less a man because of this? or is gay? no...that is a gender role..one that is traditionally female in our culture.
Gender is NOT I repeat NOT the same as biological sex...anyone should understand that. Gender is the role that the individual plays ...not what sex they are.
Basic Pych of gender

here is an interesting msnbc article
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20464004/


or read Yale historian John Boswell's book Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe

or read the wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions


I will dig up the specifics if i get a chance from my classnotes on this subject from Psych of human sexualitySmileWavy

Thanks! My specialty: Poking hornet nests in questionable English.

The dilemma is that once I post a thread with an interesting topic, I have tremendous problems to follow it up with new posts. There are just too many too intelligent, knowledgeable and well versed Pelicans, that I can´t keep up. Neither in terms of content or language.

Still happy though. :)

The entire argument that homosexuals make, is that they are born that way and are therefore a protected class. Whats to stop people from engaging in incest and claiming they were born that way and want protected class status? Any argument used to support homosexuality can be made to support incest.

Sure is a tricky question, isn´t it! :D

Sodom and Gomorrah.



KT

Trekkor!

Miss you on this topic. Thought you would perhaps have more to say on this subject.

Our entire system of laws in our "secular" society is based upon Judeo-Christian ethics. You can not extricate them from our legal system as they are the foundation.

These topics are challenging to debate because your opinion is framed by your worldview. How does anyone say that anything is right or wrong? To secular society, there are no absolutes when it comes to right and wrong. What is wrong today may be right tomorrow. That is why we are revisiting issues and making changes to accommodate society. To true God believers, right and wrong is measured by Gods absolute standard of right and wrong, which has always been the same and will never change. Our morals are degrading with each day. Just take take a drive to SF during a gay parade and then tell me that you think this is normal behavior. This is what happens when you attempt to remove God from society. This is why people want to remove God from society, so they can live as they please. Be careful what you wish for. This is only the beginning.

Yeah, I was arrested the other day for forgetting to keep the sabbath holy. :rolleyes:

I asked for material from a source other than the gay activist community. You failed with regards to both men whose work you cite as examples. First, Allan Tulchin.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/56286

I must admit I had never heard of this Allan Tulchin. A cursory google search was quick to reveal the liberties he took with his interpretations of historical records. It seems most scholars dissagree with those interpretations.

John Boswell was a gay man with an agenda, who as it happens, died from AIDS. This guy, I had heard of. He is rather infamous for his missguided, heavily biased, revisionist history of the Christian Church. The gay community has rallied around his otherwise widely discounted works for years.

http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/john-boswell-a-wasted-gift-of-intellect/

You need to expand your sources outside of the gay activist community. They are lying to themselves, and to you, to make you feel better about the aberation of homosexuality.

Wow, this is really a good post!

So, you're willing to live by the rules set forth in the Old Testament?

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/index.html

So slavery is okay? And you never eat shrimp?