Principal differences between gay marriages and polygamy?

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

[B]


Sorry, but you are just flat out wrong. That is the very crux of their argument. They want equal rights on the basis that they had no choice in being gay, that they were "born that way" That is why they constantly compare themselves to women and minorities. You see, if you just choose to be something you don't necessarily have a natural right to express it. That is why polygamy does not fly here in the US. If polygamists could somehow convince the population that they were born that way, than they would have a much greater chance of legalizing it.

That's wonderful and all, but you wasted your virtual breath by not in any way shape or form refuting what I said...in fact, you supported it. Good job.

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by NICKG

hahaha..that is funny. Some people have very Strong beliefs...and they cannot understand or accept others views.
GOD did NOT write the bible...PEOPLE wrote the bible...hence PEOPLE wrote what they wanted others to do.
The bible was more a tool to coerce, oppress and distort a good message into a sad control of people...nothing more
That is your oppinon, not a fact.
I have said this before. MORE PEOPLE HAVE DIED IN THE NAME OF RELIGION THAN IN ALL WARS PUT TOGETHER
This is a very hollow statement that is said by many people. I sincerly doubt that you coined the phrase. Religion is mans corporate attempt to please God. If you read the Bible you would see that the religious leaders were the very people that Jesus was condeming.

How exactly does gay marriage make people want to be incestuous?
Never said it did. I was only compairing the two and I concluded that incest would actually seem to be more natural than homosexuality.
Doesn't the catholic church have a license for clergy to be pedophileshse..
No they don't. In the same way I cant accuse all of secular society of being mass murders because of Charles Manson and others like him.aren't there numerous Christian enclaves that are polygamists?
You are trying to take all different beliefs and toss them into a basket named Christianity. The two faiths you mentioned are completely different.

You have obviously never read the bible and know very little about the Christian faith. You are speaking only out of emotion and personal opinion

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

As we already know, slavery was common in the Middle East as far back as ancient Egypt. If God had simply ignored it, then there would have been no rules for their treatment and they could have treated them harshly with no rights. But since they did have rights and rules for their protection, it showed that God cared for them as well. However, this is often misconstrued for an endorsement of slavery, which it is not. God listed slave traders among the worst of sinners in 1 Timothy 1:10 (kidnappers/men stealers/slave traders). This is no new teaching as Moses was not fond of forced slavery either: Exodus 21:16He who kidnaps a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, shall surely be put to death.
Here are some more posts that are copied for you.
A few pointers to remember:

Slaves under Mosaic Law were different from the harshly treated slaves of other societies, more like servants or bondservants.
The Bible doesn’t give an endorsement of slave traders but the opposite (1 Timothy 1:10). A slave/bondservant was acquired when a person voluntarily entered into it when he needed to pay off his debts.
The Bible recognizes that slavery is a reality in this sin-cursed world and doesn’t ignore it, but instead gives regulations for good treatment by both masters and servants and reveals they are equal under Christ.
Israelites could sell themselves as a slave/bondservant to have their debts covered, make a wage, have housing and be set free after six years. Foreigners could sell themselves as a slave/bondservant as well.
Biblical Christians led the fight to abolish slavery.

None of the distinctions you claim between how Christians (or Israelites) treated slaves compared to other cultures are born out in any historical evidence. Slaves were mistreated in all ancient cultures.

A quick search in my library provides this information.

“The role of slaves in Israelite society has long been a crucial topic in biblical ethics. There were at least two categories of slaves: non-Israelites who were taken captive in wars or bought as foreign slaves, and Israelites who were forced into slavery because of their debts or for some other reason. Both Canaanites and Israelites could be conscripted as slave or corvee labor, but Israelites were not to be considered permanent slaves of the king (1 Kings 9:20:22).

By contemporary standards, there is no social justice for slaves in Israelite law. Every Israelite slave is to be released after six years: in the Hammurabi code, a slave is to be released after three years. But for non-Israelite slaves, there is no release. In the law codes, the slave is reckoned as property (Exod 21:21; Lev 25:45). In cases of death or injury, the worth of the slave is clearly much less than that of an ordinary citizen (Exod 21:28-33). The memory of Israel’s slavery in Egypt provides a basis for not enslaving its own people permanently (Lev 25:42=43). This same experience, however, does not prevent Israel from making permanent slaves of aliens or foreigners (Lev 25:44-46).

Old Testament Interpretation
May, Mays, Tucker, Petersen, Richards
1995


"Christians" were as adept as any religion in claiming slavery was god's will for over 2000 years. They defended that viewpoint by use of "gods word" the bible. "Christians" only fought against slavery rather recently in history and they were the only ones to do that. Look how long “Christians” fought against mixed race marriage. Christians hardly have a good track record on morality. In fact in comparison with other cultures they are the same, morality is applied to themselves in a much different manner than to others. Christians (or any religion) do not own the moral high-ground. They are not superior in any manner in matters of ethics or morality. Their own deeds betray them every time.

My favorite defense of these past horrors, is that they were not committed by “real” Christians! Yeah, right! I’ve got a bridge to sell you too.

By your deeds, shall you be known.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

What a shame, that you quite clearly did not learn anything. Oh, rote memorization and an ability to quote others' work is one thing; some even consider that an "education". Understanding, however, comes at a level you have simply not achieved. That much has been made abundantly clear in your time here with us on PPOT.



Anyone here that has engaged our friend RPKESQ in any sort of religious debate has eventually arrived at the same conclusion.

Oh Higgy baby! Are you awake?

Your supposed higher level of knowledge has been demonstrated many times here.

Like the time you did not know about the Jefferson Bible.

Or how you thought you knew the difference between various Christian sects and crowed about your "knowledge" but were wrong in the end.

But the best was your claim (documented in the ISTG thread) that science was withholding evidence that god exists. Priceless!!!

Yes you have amply illustrated you higher level of education and knowledge. BTW what was your degree in? What discipline did you study?

[Rodsrsr]

I really dont see your point. Are you saying that Christians (people) can do extremly bad things? promote slavery, murder, lie, rape, ect, ect, ect... guess what,,, your right! I agree with you 100% Christians can and DO extremly bad things at times along with everyone else. Being a Christian does not mean that you are immune from doing wrong. So If your asking me to defend bad Christian behavior I cant. Christians are people subject to sin like everyone else. The difference is how they deal with their transgressions. Once again you've strayed way off topic. You have beat the slavery topic to death and it really has nothing to do with homosexuality. Why is it so hard for you to stick to one topic?

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Oh Higgy baby! Are you awake?

Your supposed higher level of knowledge has been demonstrated many times here.

Like the time you did not know about the Jefferson Bible.

Or how you thought you knew the difference between various Christian sects and crowed about your "knowledge" but were wrong in the end.

But the best was your claim (documented in the ISTG thread) that science was withholding evidence that god exists. Priceless!!!

Yes you have amply illustrated you higher level of education and knowledge. BTW what was your degree in? What discipline did you study?

From what I have seen you are an expert, not a novice or just someone who does casual study, but an EXPERT in the study of biology, chemistry, paleontology,evolution, theology and not limited to Christianity, but also JW, Mormonism, Judaism, and several other eastern religions. You are NEVER wrong, EVER. Everyone else is always wrong but you. Let me guess I'm even wrong in saying this right?

[Rodsrsr]

The above post was reffering to RPKESQ just to clarify.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

I really dont see your point. Are you saying that Christians (people) can do extremly bad things? promote slavery, murder, lie, rape, ect, ect, ect... guess what,,, your right! I agree with you 100% Christians can and DO extremly bad things at times along with everyone else. Being a Christian does not mean that you are immune from doing wrong. So If your asking me to defend bad Christian behavior I cant. Christians are people subject to sin like everyone else. The difference is how they deal with their transgressions. Once again you've strayed way off topic. You have beat the slavery topic to death and it really has nothing to do with homosexuality. Why is it so hard for you to stick to one topic?

I am on topic. Try to keep up, will you? Christians are the ones claiming that gay marriage is immoral. Christians have no better morals (as demonstrated in slavery, etc.) than any other group. So they have no basis to decide what is or is not moral for the rest od society.
I am tolerant of any religion, as long as they do not try and make me follow their version. In this case, gays have won the right to get married. How is that changing your beliefs or your life? The only two possible ways you could be really impacted is 1) you can't dictate your religion onto others (loss of power over others) and 2) if you offer a public service you could not discriminate against gays.

Thats it. Now take your intolerant religion and go home!

[trekkor]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Anyone here that has engaged our friend RPKESQ in any sort of religious debate has eventually arrived at the same conclusion.

Correct! Yep, Richard resides on 'ignore'.
Every post he makes is either insulting, rude, accusing or arrogant.


I suppose next he'll tell us homosexuality is 'proof' of evolution.



KT

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

From what I have seen you are an expert, not a novice or just someone who does casual study, but an EXPERT in the study of biology, chemistry, paleontology,evolution, theology and not limited to Christianity, but also JW, Mormonism, Judaism, and several other eastern religions. You are NEVER wrong, EVER. Everyone else is always wrong but you. Let me guess I'm even wrong in saying this right?

Wow, amazingly you are right mostly. Congratulations.

Just to let you know. I have spent considerable time studying both Biology and Anthropology. In fact, my area of specialization Biology was human evolution and in Anthropology it was comparative religion and social organizations. So yes, that does cover most of what you seem to find so hard to grasp.
I am often wrong, but I research first before going public with claims that are easily proved as false. Many others have posted correctly because of hard won knowledge and expertise. But some are quite upset when their unsubstantiated opinions are routinely shot down.

Like this one of yours: "You are NEVER wrong, EVER. Everyone else is always wrong but you". You will find quite a few people on this board who happen to be right. You just don't give them credit for it.

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

I am on topic. Try to keep up, will you? Christians are the ones claiming that gay marriage is immoral. Christians have no better morals (as demonstrated in slavery, etc.) than any other group. So they have no basis to decide what is or is not moral for the rest od society.
I am tolerant of any religion, as long as they do not try and make me follow their version. In this case, gays have won the right to get married. How is that changing your beliefs or your life? The only two possible ways you could be really impacted is 1) you can't dictate your religion onto others (loss of power over others) and 2) if you offer a public service you could not discriminate against gays.

Thats it. Now take your intolerant religion and go home!

You seem to really have it out for Christians. You take every thread and turn it into a Christian hating bash. You did this on the evolution thread and your doing it here. The thread is titled "Principle differences between gays and polygamy" If you need to reply with a reference to a religion or God thats fine, but you are turning this into an entire Christianity debate, so I am finished with you. Good by.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by NICKG

Just because a man has a penis does not mean he cannot fulfill the gender role of a woman and vice versa...

i am utterly speachless. good luck to you all.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by trekkor

I suppose next he'll tell us homosexuality is 'proof' of evolution.

KT

Homosexuality is widely observed in the animal world, Trekkor. How did it get there? Either by product of evolution, which you say is just guesses....or it was put there by your Creator.

Mmmm.

[IROC]

Christians complaining about homosexual behavior is like the Amish complaining about other people using electricity.

[livi]

I am just sitting here, enjoying my pipe and cold beer, confirming to myself that this thread is turning out exactly the way I figured! Vivid and emotional! Brilliant! Thanks guys!

[IROC]

Originally Posted by livi

I am just sitting here, enjoying my pipe and cold beer, confirming to myself that this thread is turning out exactly the way I figured! Vivid and emotional! Brilliant! Thanks guys!

Yeah!! You started this mess!!

Funny how so many of these threads condense down to an argument about religion. IMHO, that simply points out that religion is the true problem here...

Like that same anti-lottery, fundamentalist Christian friend of mine used to say, "a little controversy never hurt anyone"...

[Jim Richards]

Trouble maker.

[livi]

[NICKG]

Originally Posted by berettafan

i am utterly speachless. good luck to you all.

I admit the gender thing is VERY hard to realize..it took me a while to realize they were different as well...but honestly that is only because we are socialized to think they are the same. All thse beleifs, religions are social mechanisms, they are set in our minds, so passionately that most can't see past them. I understand that these are SOCIALIZED into us makes it easier to have an open mind...that is what I think.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by vash

would you hate your child if he/she was gay? nothing easy about having an open mind.

WTF is this with saying it is about hate? I guess it is not surprising. 95% of the guys on the pro gay marriage side of the discussion don't know much, if anything about this decision and what precipitated it.

Originally Posted by KaptKaos

Our entire system of laws in our "secular" society is based upon Judeo-Christian ethics. You can not extricate them from our legal system as they are the foundation.

Don't start tossing facts out there, this is all about emotion

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Um...I think that's a bit wrong there. They either want equal rights for their relationships that heteros have, or they want all of those rights taken away from everyone. I don't hear the average homosexual asking for "protected status" in any way shape or form...in fact, it seems to be the heteros that are against gay marriage that are howling for "protected status"..."protect" our marriage unions, make us "special" people since we're hetero, please hear our plea Mr. Government!!

They already had equal rights in California. They had difficulty with federal benefits because at that level, a civil union is viewed differently than a marriage

Originally Posted by IROC

Christians can't stand it if someone else thinks differently than they do. Kills 'em. I've never seen a bigger bunch of intolerant people in my life.

you must not hang out with too many liberals

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

What a shame, that you quite clearly did not learn anything. Oh, rote memorization and an ability to quote others' work is one thing; some even consider that an "education". Understanding, however, comes at a level you have simply not achieved. That much has been made abundantly clear in your time here with us on PPOT.

I thought it was just me, or the Europeaness of his attitude on everything, but Markus is European and he is nothing like that. Maybe Frenchies' father violated him at a young age or something, he does have an interesting view on a lot of things. Uninformed to a large degree, but at least he has conviction