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A Man of Wealth and Taste
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Out there somewhere beyond the doors of perception
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Buying Back Our Own National Debt
Wow think of this...Ole GW decides to finance the war in Iraq by floating more debt, which will cause all the holders of $$$$ in the world to lose value on the $$$ that they hold as the dollar declines. Thus he is using free money. However certain parties to get even decide to jump the price of oil to compensate for the decline in the $$$ therefore the people of the USA are buying back their own debt via greater price at the gas tank. So we are paying for the war after all.
One strong reason for the war and this is nothing new is the fact that Saddam wanted to use the Euro as the currency of choice for oil trading. That would mean that the USA could not manipulate the currency by printing more of it, because we know as being the reserve currency that everybody will have to keep $$ on hand to pay for oil and that currency will be outa circulation. If all that currency would hit the market at once by by world economy. Also Iran is a supporter of using the Euro and that has been a good enough reason for the AXIS of Evil statement. We do live in a financially integrated world where no party could escape the consequences of a collapse of the USA. Therefore no rational party would try and upset the applecart, especially if they are makin money. The standard of living has been in decline for decades int the USA. This has been a fact with the rise of cheaper foreign labor in competition with the higher priced US labor market. The world had to pay the freight for a USA labor market when the USA was the only game in town after WW2. Not so today... I have long said that the American people don't realize the risk of holding $$$ in something as simple as a Money Market Account. The $$$ floats in value daily on the world market, as the reserve currency of choice the $$ has been the rock of Gibraltar and people have gotten a false sense of security, however NOW the American people are finally getting the idea that the almighty dollar is only as strong as our economy and as solvent as our government. A third idea has popped up in my reptilian brain..That speculators are in the energy market because it is the only way that they can make an easy $$$$. We are headed for an energy price bubble on the par with the housing sub prime bubble and when it breaks whoa onto anyone who is still holding energy futures..It seems like we are headed from one bubble to the next???? It seems like the world has been in disarray since 911. Chaos has reigned supreme.
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06-13-2008, 08:43 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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otherwise am mostly in agreement.
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06-13-2008, 09:15 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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Interest rates were lowered because of a crisis of liquidity with the collapse of the Sub Prime Bond market. Lower interest rates was the way to keep the cash flowing...otherwise the abyss was the altenative...
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06-13-2008, 09:18 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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Anybody who hold $$$ is trying to invest them into something that will make a return.
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06-13-2008, 09:21 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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Ahhhh Yeah and what happenend in sept of 2001.....the Fed lowered interest rates 7 times to a rate of 1%. GM went to 0% financing...all because 911 caused a crisis of liquidity...If the value of your financial instrument is not saleable because of an act of terrorism it has no value. Then the whole finacial system is well history... Why do you think the Markets were closed for a week after 911, why did the Fed loan $80 B to European Banks to keep them liquid the week of 911.... Wayne havn't U bin paying attention to what I have been writing for the past 7 years??? Get a grip...
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06-13-2008, 09:29 PM
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I'd say you have a chicken vs egg quandry. Dual income, caused inflated home pricing and overconsumption. Now, prices (and a person's "needs") have caught up to income again...
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Peter '79 930, Odyssey kid carrier, Prius sacrificial lamb Missing  997.1 GT3 RSnil carborundum illegitimi |
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06-13-2008, 09:33 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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Yes then the RE people said ahhhh hah with lower interest rates housing looks cheap to by as prices rose to and past the affordability level to keep the game going the Lenders thought lets make creative loans....the boyz on the street said... ahhh relative to T Bonds this lsubprime loans are high yielding...and then to buy more they leveraged and leveraged those loan packages to get more high yielding interest bearing home loans. When the pyramid of home prices and those funny money loans came due the bottom dropped out...so that no one was willing to buy oe of those loan packages at any price thus they became worthless over night even though an interest stream of money was still coming in on them.
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06-13-2008, 09:35 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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Before it took a dual income...there was the first oil crisis of 1974 and then again in the late 70's...
Until 1972 the US $ was pegged to the price of gold at $35 an OZ...Nixon decoupled the $$ from gold. Therefore the OPECers were holiding devalued $$$ as gold immediatily went to $110... Inflation set in in the late 70's and gold went to $800...along with housing etc making a big jump. This seems like the middle 70's all over again...and again it is because we are fighting a war on credit....remember LBJ's guns and butter approach...the American people do not have to sacrafice. or pay as you go....
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06-13-2008, 09:45 PM
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Peter '79 930, Odyssey kid carrier, Prius sacrificial lamb Missing 997.1 GT3 RSnil carborundum illegitimi |
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06-13-2008, 10:00 PM
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Dog-faced pony soldier
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I've been saying this smells like 1974 all over again for a few months now. Did you catch Bernanke's comments? He basically said, "we're going to be pushing rates through the roof pretty soon in a desperate attempt to rein in the double-digit inflation that's coming". Hold on people it's going to be a wild ride. And yes, I agree completely that the standard of living in America is actually declining. In terms of real ownership stake in things and how much actual control people have over their day-to-day lives, we're definitely on the decline. A veneer of unnecessary electronic toys shouldn't distract from that.
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A car, a 911, a motorbike and a few surfboards Black Cars Matter |
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06-14-2008, 01:26 AM
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Bandwidth AbUser
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Location: SoCal
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 Rising home prices due to inflation in the 1970s/1980s forced families to move to dual incomes. That's our experience during that era. Our first house was purchased using one income, and from there on out, our subsequent homes required two incomes to purchase. BTW, ee haven't been living large, so that isn't the reason for going dual income.
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06-14-2008, 03:21 AM
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 . But as part of the runup in prices, I believe one has to factor in the emergence of women in the work force and the subsequent increase in home prices etc. Now the dual incomes are required to buy homes, and even typical middle class dual income isn't enough in Cali presently. The current market in big cities almost guarantees that the so-called DINKers (dual income-no kids) are the only ones who'll be buying anytime soon.
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Peter '79 930, Odyssey kid carrier, Prius sacrificial lamb Missing 997.1 GT3 RSnil carborundum illegitimi |
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06-14-2008, 07:50 AM
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IMO, the emergence of women in the workplace was to help families afford a home. Home prices went nuts during the Jimmy Carter stagflation years.
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Jim R. |
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06-14-2008, 07:59 AM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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Quote:
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06-14-2008, 11:03 AM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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I agree with Jim..
Back in the 60's a guy right outa High Scholl could get a job where he was able to afford a House and a new car all on one salary. Women were supposed to stay home and take care of the kids... Come the mid 70's and all that changed it now took 2 incomes to afford a home....mom could stay at home anymore.. Come the late 90's and it took 2 incomes and a credit card to live Middle Class... Take a look at all the manufacturing jobs that have disappeared and gone offshore...simple jobs like Procter & Gamble making soap, that is now made in Mexico...why less environmental regs and cheaper labor...
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06-14-2008, 11:07 AM
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Don'r buy all the other crap that folks in the middle class didn't have and one can do just fine. I knew very few families with multiple cars, multiple TVs, cable, computers, MP3 players, microwaves, granite countertops, memberships in gyms...who went on vacations where they could not drive, used disposable diapers or bought their kids $100 sneakers (I worked all summer just to buy a pair of Chuck Taylor Converse All Stars). I didn't know anyone who went out to eat at restraurants more than once or twice a year or regularly even cooked prepackaged prepared food...much less microwavble snacks like hot pockets or pizza rolls.
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74 Targa 3.0, 89 Carrera, 04 Cayenne Turbo http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/fintstone/ "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" Some are born free. Some have freedom thrust upon them. Others simply surrender |
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06-14-2008, 12:50 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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Yeah Fint...most of those things didn't even exist when you were a kid....did Orivile and Wilbur even take off yet?
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06-14-2008, 01:21 PM
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06-14-2008, 04:05 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
Join Date: Dec 2002
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In the 50's 60's & 70's the following things did not exist or were just starting to become available.
Color TV..NBC was the first Broadcaster to broadcast in colour circa 1962. For several years they were the only one. Cable TV didn't exist beofre the the very end of the 1960's PC's ....hah..not until the early 90's did they become mass market. Multiple Cars....most familys in my hood had 2 cars... Granite Countertops..is a kitchen fashion statement...as such it was largely unheard of. Tile or Formica was the standard of the day. Multiple TV's yes and no...by the early 70's it was beocming muc more common. $100 Tennys...in what dream? Reebok was the first fashion statement Tenny in the mid 80's Prepackaged food was called TV Dinners...and yeah we had them at $0.39 apieice. Restruants...Having Dinner in a upscale dinner house was a once or twice ayear thing...birthdays...mostly if we went out it was to Chinese Food, Italian Food, Bob Big Boy type of deal..moderately priced far...so maybe once a month??? Microwaves, First one I saw was in 1968, Daddys friend who lived in Palos Verde had one. Most vacations were driving ones...however I have traveled across country by train and plane in the 50's to visit Granda Ma's house in the woods. AND IN THOSE DAY THERE WAS NO FKIN AC IN CARS.... MP3...What the fk are those????? Membership in a Gym....you gotta be kiddin.. We had a swimming pool that cost $3000 to build. We did our own landscaping and yard maintence...no gardners We did most of our own car repair..water pumps, Generators etc... Visits to the MD were rare... Vet bills were on a need to give the dog a rabies shot Movies were double features...and yeah we went to them fairly regularily. Telephones were dial ups and we had Party Lines...this waqs before there was even such a thing as area codes....I remember in the 50's we didn't even have a telephone...The old phone number was ED5-0868....Daddy had that for 30 years.... Seat Belts in Cars were an option not mandatory. No smog control devices till 1968. In the 50's people burned their trash in LA, I rememebr when they changed that around 1957...no more Incenerators. Stereo....back in the 50's it was single channel and was called HI FI...everything was Tubes until around 1964. Tape recorders were Reel to Reel. No 4 Tracks, No 8 Tracks, Cassets or CD's. VCR's not until the very late 70's...Beta....
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06-15-2008, 12:40 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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Laundry was dried on the Cloths Line
We did have a washing machine and when it broke Daddy fixed it. To get TV reception you had to have a TV antenna...since we lived close to the mountains our reception was blocked. So we could only get 3 channels...CBS, NBC and the local broadcaster KTLA...the rest was snow... We didn't have Central Air nor did anybody else in our hood, also home insulation was largely unknown at the time as well. AC was keeping the windows open at night. Refrigerators had to be defrosted... Having Steak for Dinner was RARE... a T-Bone would be a luxury.
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06-15-2008, 12:55 PM
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1974 Porsche 911 3.0
Yellow 911
