not a Marlin fan

Winchester, Remington for 'cheap' long guns

Browning...

anybody want to send me a nice Belgian over & under?

uhm...I'm afraid to say anything, but...what do you need all these guns for? Do you live in bad neighnourhoods?? Did anyone see Bowling for Columbine? Michael Moore?

Maybe I'm living with rose coloured glasses, maybe the world is going down the drain; but it's damn near impossible to buy a pistol in Canada and **** loads of paper work for a rifle...and I gotta say I prefere it that way.

Any thoughts?

my guns have trigger locks and are locked in a gun safe. I do not keep loaded weapons around the house.

It is a fun hobby. Target shooting is quite relaxing and challenging.

It also is a sad reality that in times of crisis people behave badly. There will most certainly be a large-scale disaster in Los Angeles in the not-too-distant future. I work with law enforcement people and they all say the same thing - "you're own your own for probably a week...don't bother to call us." Should that happen, I owe it to my family to provide protection from people who are not prepared for the worst and decide they want to behave badly.

Finally, it is part of the heritage of this country. I hope I never see armed revolution here, but it is part of our history. Irresponsible gun ownership is a crime. Responsible gun ownership is a right granted by the constitution, and is not to be taken lightly or for granted.

It's like any other hobby for many of us, Larry. Does anyone "need" a Porsche? Does anyone "need" to golf? Does anyone "need" a camera? They are all enjoyable pursuits for responsible people to enjoy. People speed, die, and kill others with unnecessarily fast cars. I could kill as easily with a golf club as a gun; many have. I could load up the 'net with kiddie porn with the cheapest of cameras. With all of these "I coulds...", with all of the potential for harm from just about any artifact of modern existence, many of us find it odd (and distressing) that so many have chosen to focus on guns. Certainly, in the wrong hands, they can do a great deal of harm. Most of us are not "the wrong hands" and should not be restricted in our harmless hobbies or punished for the crimes of others.

And please don't tell me you take anything Michael Moore has to say seriously...

The sole purpose of my purchase was for target shooting. The thought of using this on another person never crossed my mind until your post, Larry, and what I mean by that is I never thought for a moment I was buying this gun for self defense ( I will admit the thought of taking out the neighbors 5 dogs did corss my mind) I am buying it for recreation. I like all kinds of recreation, weight lifting, running, raquetball, bicycling, kayaking, hiking, Track days, Autocrosses, and I know there are other interests...

I have always wanted to mess around with target shooting so I am finally giving it a try. Notice I went out and purchased a .22 and not something substantial, with "knock down power" same goes for when I have a pistol .22 will do fine for me.

Now to take this thread way off topic in off topic. ;)

Do not let Mike Moore fool you, guns did not kill those kids in Columbine other kids did.

I recently took a parenting course the the teacher was instructing us on how to handle tattle tales. Our initial reaction is to go after the person being tattled on, when in essence you should be going to the kid tattling first.

Then she said something chilling.

Victims are shooters.

When you run past the kid who was hit, for example and yell at the hitter, you ignored the victim and gave all your attention to the aggressor. Meanwhile the victim is left all alone to deal with their own feelings. What we were taught to do was to go straight to the victim and ask them a series of questions, How did this make you feel? Do you like it when Johnny hits you? Go tell Johnny in your big voice how you feel....

Victim walks to aggressor and tells him, "I do not like it when you hit me, it hurts and I want you to stop."

Now the victim is a voice being herd and is standing up for themselves. Mommy and daddy cannot be there a kids entire life to fight their battles and allow them to be victims.

Those kids that did the shooting in Columbine were victims that never used their big voice and when they finally did stand up for themselves, they did it with guns instead of their voices because they were never taught to stand up for themselves. Bottom line Columbine was those kids parents fault for not teaching them to stand up for themselves.

Some simple facts. A lever action Marlin is an excellent gun. A lever action Marlin 45-70 is the ultimate hunting gun, from deer to bear. It is not and none of the lever actions are target guns.

All good target guns are in the range of $1000 to $4000, with $2500 being average. That applies to both pistols and rifles.

If you want a 22 targert pistol, check out what the National Match people are using. Same for rifle.

Your should expect to pay about $900 for a second hand target gun, not the top of the line, but average.

Of course, if you have bo koo bucks, you can spend upwards of $25,000 on a gun

Try all the top 'match grade' ammo, and see which one your gun likes best. Every gun has a preference.

BTW, Kurt V, i definitely approve of your child rearing methodology. :)

OK, well then go back to your socialist haven and leave us stupid Americans to our guns.

We really, really, really, really like them.

In case you hadn't noticed.

Larry, this thread has to do with the discussion about the first rifle Jim C. purchased, and some recommendations for a .22 pistol for him. The thread was not about the social ills of America or crime or whatever. You are dragging the topic "off topic" to fulfill your own deep seated need to press your social agenda. Please start another thread to pontificate on your views, OK? You're just being rude pushing it here.

Holy fuch, Jack.... Jim wants to shoot some beer cans and paper squares - not compete on the Olympic shooting team.

While a lever action rifle may not be a competition firearm, ANY firearm is a target gun.


Go help those empty bud cans meet their doom, Jim.

I would not post the number anywhere on the internet but you could post something like 100100xxx, with the last few numbers blanked out. Its just not needed.

As well I would not post any photos of a gun collection, or for that matter any collection of valuable items. There are far too many people out there who use the internet to find things to steal. The less that anyone knows about what you own, the better.

Nice looking gun and beautiful wood on it.

The 2nd (or 4th or 5th) the recommendation for the Ruger 22. I've had 2 or 3. They've all been fine shooters.

Smith and Wesson on the other hand, some shoot great (love my 629 .44 mag and a .357 I used to have) some shoot poorly (my .22, a .357 silhouette version "Pinoccio" I used to have, and one my Dad had).

S&W quality seem to be hit or miss. When my father's was spitting lead out the sides because the barrel was out of alignment with the cylinder, S&W's warrantee "solution" was to increase the size of the breach "funnel" so the bullet could find the bore.

As for expensive target pistols: Spend your money on ammo not the pistol and you'll be a better shot. Sort of the same argument for spending your money on track time instead of a high dollar motor.
-Chris

How about not attacking the guy for a simple question, Snipper?

Larry - In addition to the hobby responses above, for some of us, guns are family heirlooms. Like many others who grew up in southern Louisiana, as a young boy I knew I would inherit a few pieces of family silver (most goes to sisters, but some goes to boys - French heritage) and a few guns and knives. The guns go back to Grandpa and for some, much further. I heard of a few kids whose guns went back to France - before 1718 even.

Hunting is not always a hobby. We didn't have much $$ to buy meat with when I was a kid, and ate a lot of squirrel, rabbit, quail & dove 'cuz it was cheap. I know of others who do that even today and even in highly settled areas - one example was the photocopy machine operator at Indiana Univ. (Bio. Dept.). Few faculty "wasted time" by talking to her, but I did. She brought in cash, and gardened. Her husband hunted for meat. The parallels to ancient hunter-gathers are clear and the gender division is still present. There was a Sociology thesis waiting to be written right there in front of everybody...

Finally, a nice big shotgun is useful in Grizzly or Polar Bear country. Some research scientist colleagues of mine have graduate students rotate guard duty for just that reason.

"Spend your money on [yoga] not the pistol and you'll [REALLY] be a better shot."

I hear the armed forces of India are starting to add yoga training to their regular calisthenic program now...

I play golf from time to time with my friends, I have a set of JC Penney Catalog Clubs that I paid $200 for 12-15 years ago. Should I get the latest set of Pings for that too?

Same goes for Raquetball, I have a $50 Sports Authority Raquet should I buy the best there is?

I truly do not think my lever action rifle will be holding me back anymore than my gold clubs or raquet do.

Back to Larry's comment re paperwork...

In today's paper, I just read that some moron nearly killed several people while he was shooting his assault rifle across a lake. When arrested, he said "Gee, I'm sorry - I didn't realize the BULLETS COULD SKIP."

I'd say we need more safety training. It's obvious he didn't grow up in a "gun culture" like I did. Every 9 year old in my neighborhood know bullets could skip.

Your Dad gave you a Daisy BB gun sometime in elem. school. Later, you'd graduate to a pellet gun, and after your Dad and other adults thought you'd passed muster, a "real gun" a .22 (I got a Winchester - I agree re the nice Rugers as per above tho). Then a 20 gauge, and as an adult, a 12 gauge. Every step came with training - informal - from the adult men in the area that you and your Dad hunted with, shot with, picnic'ed with etc.

I don't think much of that is going on today.

Worse, we see a lot of people who need psycho-therapy, but instead buy themselves a gun.

Sorry, no can do.

I've been meaning to pick up a Ruger 22 for target practice. After reading this thread I plunked down the cash on a MKIII678. I should have it in about 10 days.

By the way, cute photo.

My favorite pistol is a Hi Standard Military model target gun. It will out shoot most rifles at 100 yards! Unfortunately they do not make them anymore. It cost $450 almost 35 years ago. Still worth that much or more.

If you want to target shoot, that means competition. You cannot compete with a standard hunting gun, it just cannot do the job, no matter how good you are. Good ammo is also a requirement. Every gun needs custom ammo to shoot up to its ability. The barrel is like a tuning fork. When the round goes off it makes the barrel vibrate, consequently throwing the bullet off the desired path. The proper load minimizes this effect, which can be considerable.

Target guns are capable of shooting one hole groups at the ranges they were designed for, hunting guns, like lever actions, do well, but cannot hold better than 1 to 2" groups at 100 yards. More than good enough for most all game. An exception is a so called Varmet rifle, capable of shooting a chipmunk at 1000 yards. A Varmet rifle is really a target or sniper rifle.

My favorite pistol is a Hi Standard Military model target gun. It will out shoot most rifles at 100 yards! Unfortunately they do not make them anymore. It cost $450 almost 35 years ago. Still worth that much or more.

If you want to target shoot, that means competition. You cannot compete with a standard hunting gun, it just cannot do the job, no matter how good you are. Good ammo is also a requirement. Every gun needs custom ammo to shoot up to its ability. The barrel is like a tuning fork. When the round goes off it makes the barrel vibrate, consequently throwing the bullet off the desired path. The proper load minimizes this effect, which can be considerable.

Target guns are capable of shooting one hole groups at the ranges they were designed for, hunting guns, like lever actions, do well, but cannot hold better than 1 to 2" groups at 100 yards. More than good enough for most all game. An exception is a so called Varmet rifle, capable of shooting a chipmunk at 1000 yards. A Varmet rifle is really a target or sniper rifle.