VW R32 clutch repair questions

[FastCarFan]

My DD is a 2004 VW R32. I absolutely love the car. It was virtually perfect for 58,000 miles. I had a couple of problems around 59,000 miles & then, Monday, at 61,800 miles, the clutch pedal did not come up as far/high as it normally did. In other words, the clutch pedal sort of went limp.

At first I thought I might be imagining it. I had been driving my 911 for several days & thought I was just not used to the R32 after the 911. It shifted fine. Then, Wednesday I could not get it into reverse. It still drove fine in the forward gears, but it would not go into reverse.

I took it to my local VW dealer who has treated me well over the years. They would not tear it down until they had all of the clutch parts in -- they didn't want it tying up a rack waiting for parts. Just yesterday (after 1 week at the dealer), they determined that the pressure plate had failed. Something about some of the teeth being higher than others. They said the flywheel was fine & they estimated that the clutch had about 40,000+ miles of life on it. The dealer has the parts & took photos of everything to show VW.

They said the problem was clearly not due to a worn clutch or abuse -- it was caused by a failure in the pressure plate. And the pressure plate was covered by the 5-year/60,000-mile powertrain warranty (remember the car has 61,800 miles on it). I feel VW should help with the repairs. The dealer replaced the pressure plate & clutch, for $1,100! I feel VW should pay for the pressure plate & 40% of the clutch (since it had about 40% of life left).

Do you think that is a fair compromise? Do you agree that VW should help with the repairs? It is barely out of warranty. I also advised VW that I currently own 2 VWs & an Audi, & I have owned 4 previous VWs. That should be worth something. VW is considering the situation -- I should know their answer Monday.

Then, to make matters worse, today the dealer advised I needed a clutch master cylinder. I asked why & they told me that when they were bleeding the lines after installing the clutch, it caused some sort of seal to fail in the master cylinder. I have never heard of such a thing. I told them they (the dealership) should pay for the master cylinder ($250) since they broke it. They said no -- they said this happens sometimes when you bleed the lines on an older car.

Does this sound reasonable? I strongly feel the dealer is responsible for the master cylinder. Do you agree? It seems to me that the dealer screwed up & somehow destroyed the master cylinder. It clearly wasn't my fault!

Sorry for the long posting, but I am mad. I hope the Pelican community can tell me if I am right...or if I am wrong. I think I am being very reasonable.

Bottom line, I think VW should pay for the pressure plate & 40% of the clutch, & the dealer should pay for the master cylinder. The car is still at the dealer awaiting a master cylinder (they estimate it will be done Monday or Tuesday). I am looking at a $1,350 + tax repair bill that I don't think I should be responsible for. I realize it is an older car & that it is out of warranty, but it is barely out of warranty.

Thanks in advance for your advice. I appreciate it.

[9dreizig]

I think that's reasonable,, no way should the master cylinder have failed. .I'd call another dealer and talk to the service manager to get another opinion..

[speedracing944]

IMO a 2004 isn't an "older" car. I have never ruined a clutch master by bleeding. I wonder what they did to it.

Speedy

[FastCarFan]

Thanks guys. Anyone else have comments/advice?

Thanks.

[Tobra]

I have heard of damaging a MC by pushing the pedal too far when bleeding, you put a block of wood under it and it does not do this.

If they are taking it all apart, you want a new clutch; was it design defect that caused it to fail? Pretty impressive they engineer it to fail less than 2000 miles after the warranty expired

[ChrisBennet]

It not uncommon to have the master cylinder seal fail after manual bleeding on an older car - but you're car is not an "older car" and I doubt they bled it manually. That said, it may be common on VW's for all I know. For example, it isn't common for the rubber door strips to fall off car doors - unless it's a VW. As much as we love VW's one can see how they came to rank 31st place in quality last year (up to 24st this year though).
-Chris

[FastCarFan]

Update: Today VW advised me that as "goodwill", they will pay for replacement of the clutch master cylinder (est $250 + tax), but they will offer no assistance on the pressure plate or clutch replacement.

While I am glad to get something, I would prefer to get help on the more expensive repairs. Also, I guessed that the master cylinder damage was the dealer's responsibility, not VW's. Perhaps VW has had other master cylinder failures?

It looks like I may have to eat the clutch & pressure plate ($1,100 + tax). I will send a letter to VW requesting more assistance, but I don't expect it will help. And I don't expect VW will get my business again either.

[javadog]

First, let me say that I am sorry to hear of your problem. I wouldn't be to hard on them, though. VW isn't any different than any of the other manufacturers. It's out of warranty. Period. If they give you anything, consider yourself lucky. If they extended your warranty, everyone else that had an out of warranty claim would be bugging them, too. They have to draw the line somewhere.

I'm sure that when you bought the car, the dealer offered you an extended warranty and you turned it down. We all make choices. Cars do break. We all weigh the "odds" and make decisions we sometimes regret. Life goes on. Look at the bright side, cars are quite a bit more reliable than they used to be, in spite of their exponentially increased complexity.

JR

[the]

I agree. It's out of warranty. If you wanted a warranty longer than 60K, you could have paid for one and gotten one (warrantydirect.com, etc.).

I don't think it is unreasonable to have a bright line rule for when warranties expire. You think it should be covered at 61,800. The next guy will think it should be covered at 61,900. And on and on. It's just a contract. Just like they can't say at 59,000 miles "Oh, wow, that's really close to the end of the warranty, we're not going to cover it," you can't expect them to agree to cover it at 61K.

That being said, we've had cars with major repairs (both transmissions, both BMWs) that were handled differently by different dealers. My uncle had his trans blow up around 2,000 miles out of warranty. BMW didn't pay a dime. My parents had one blow up even further out of warranty, but they got the dealer to "goodwill" it (they got BMW to either pay for it all, or for half, I don't remember).

[FastCarFan]

Thanks for the comments guys. For the record, I realize my car is out of warranty. However, I also know that automakers often make "policy adjustments" for situations where they have a known product problem. I worked for an automaker for 14 years....

I have never had any clutch problems with a car before (I have been driving manuals since 1978) & I don't think a pressure plate should fail at 62,000 miles. I searched on VWVortex.com (a VW enthusiast Web forum similar to Pelican) & found a poll asking R32 owners what problems they have had with their cars. 51 out of 457 who took the poll (11%) experienced "premature clutch failure". 457 is a pretty good poll sample, considering only 5,000 of R32s were imported. It seems VW has a problem with clutches.

The poll also found 11% had radiator fan failure -- both of mine failed at 59,000 miles. The repair cost was $676, again for a problem I have never had on a car before. In this case, VW did cover 1/2 of the repair cost (out of the 36,000-mile warranty) because it was a known product problem with R32s.

So, since 59,000 miles I have had to have both front wheel bearings replaced ($562!), 2 radiator fans replaced ($338 out of my pocket) & know I am facing an $1,150 bill (after VW's assistance with the master cylinder) for a clutch problem I don't think should have happened. That's over $2,000 in repairs in less than 4,000 miles. And I had literally zero problems prior to 59,000 miles.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

[Langers]

Originally Posted by FastCarFan

I have never had any clutch problems with a car before (I have been driving manuals since 1978) & I don't think a pressure plate should fail at 62,000 miles. I searched on VWVortex.com (a VW enthusiast Web forum similar to Pelican) & found a poll asking R32 owners what problems they have had with their cars. 50 out of 437 who took the poll (11%) experienced "premature clutch failure". 437 is a pretty good poll sample, considering only 5,000 of R32s were imported. It seems VW has a problem with clutches.

No, VW's clutches are just fine. The problem is that VWVortexers are a bunch of young hoons who thrash the living daylights out of their cars and then complain when they break.

[FastCarFan]

Originally Posted by Langers

No, VW's clutches are just fine. The problem is that VWVortexers are a bunch of young hoons who thrash the living daylights out of their cars and then complain when they break.

I hear you. However, I do not "thrash the living daylights out of (my) cars & then complain when the break".

I just needed to rant. I feel a little bit better now. I think my car is actually finished now...after 11 days at the dealership. I am anxious to get it back because I love the car.

[Tobra]

My Integra has 150,000 miles on it. I replaced my clutch master cylinder when it failed at 140,000 miles when it was 8 years old. I regularly drive it like I stole it, have since I picked it up with 4 miles on the clock. Original clutch, thirds set of brake pads, many sets of tires, one radiator(only unscheduled maint). I like the way it drives too, and the only time I have to take it to the shop, is when some silly cow hits me because she is talking on the phone rather than paying attention