Where do you stand on the second amendment?

[Pazuzu]

1) If I find anyone standing on the second amendment, I'll smack them silly.

2) If you get rid of the current gun laws, you better ******* get rid of the knife laws too. I'm pissed that I can't currently carry my automatic knife in this state

[cab83_750]

Originally Posted by legion

i Am Fine With Laws That Define Minimum Safety Requirements For Firearms (like They Don't Go Off When You Drop Them) And Ammunition.

I Am Fine With Laws The Prohibit Felons And The Mentally Ill From Possessing Firearms.

I Am Fine With Taxing The Sale Of Firearms, Ammunition, Etc... (keep The Government Interested It Allowing Them To Be Sold.)

Pretty Much Everything Else I Oppose.

I See The Second Amendment As The Ultimate Check By The Populace On An Overbearing And Ever-expanding Government.

+1

[azasadny]

Originally Posted by legion

i Am Fine With Laws That Define Minimum Safety Requirements For Firearms (like They Don't Go Off When You Drop Them) And Ammunition.

I Am Fine With Laws The Prohibit Felons And The Mentally Ill From Possessing Firearms.

I Am Fine With Taxing The Sale Of Firearms, Ammunition, Etc... (keep The Government Interested It Allowing Them To Be Sold.)

Pretty Much Everything Else I Oppose.

I See The Second Amendment As The Ultimate Check By The Populace On An Overbearing And Ever-expanding Government.

+1

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by legion

I am fine with laws that define minimum safety requirements for firearms (like they don't go off when you drop them) and ammunition.

I am fine with laws the prohibit felons and the mentally ill from possessing firearms.

I am fine with taxing the sale of firearms, ammunition, etc... (Keep the government interested it allowing them to be sold.)

Pretty much everything else I oppose.

I see the Second Amendment as the ultimate check by the populace on an overbearing and ever-expanding government.

No +1.

If that is what you are fine with, then move somewhere that has those same beliefs as you do. Such places exist. It's part of personal rights that you have the right to live somewhere that clicks with you, but you don't have the right to make your current place change just for you.

Move to Arizona and be happy. And, there's lots of pasty white Midwesterners there, it'll be like home, but with more guns.

[legion]

Mike, if you are going to refute something, at least provide a coherent counter argument. I honestly have no idea what you are trying to get at and my mind-reading skills don't work over the Internet.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by legion

Mike, if you are going to refute something, at least provide a coherent counter argument. I honestly have no idea what you are trying to get at and my mind-reading skills don't work over the Internet.

I thought it was simple.

You want ABC. You live in a place that has DEF. You cannot expect the place to change to want ABC, so instead, you move to a different place that already wants ABC.

People are so hung up on making thier town/state/country change for THEIR personal wants, instead of finding the town/state/country that already exists and matches their wants.

You want gun law freedom? Move outta Illinois and go someplace like AZ where they already give you that freedom.


I don't know where the "refute" part came into it, but hey, that's your word, not mine.

[Mule]

I didn't know it was like a menu! One from corrum a and one from corrum b.

[legion]

Mike, you are looking at the situation in Illinois backwards. It is Chicago that is imposing its will on the rest of the state. I am in the majority in this state, but a few powerful politicians (like Mayor Daley) want to override the will of the people and abridge their rights to make the world conform to their beliefs.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by legion

Mike, you are looking at the situation in Illinois backwards. It is Chicago that is imposing its will on the rest of the state. I am in the majority in this state, but a few powerful politicians (like Mayor Daley) want to override the will of the people and abridge their rights to make the world conform to their beliefs.

I know how it is there, I was there for 25 years, both in Chicago and downstate. You've already done the right thing by living downstate, since they mesh with your philosophy better. So ,if somehow Chicago pushes their power over the entire state, you might have to leave. However, do you *really* think that the City has that kind of power? I lived in farmland, and I know that south of I-80 will revolt with arms and pitchforks before they let Chicago run their lives.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

I know how it is there, I was there for 25 years, both in Chicago and downstate. You've already done the right thing by living downstate, since they mesh with your philosophy better. So ,if somehow Chicago pushes their power over the entire state, you might have to leave. However, do you *really* think that the City has that kind of power? I lived in farmland, and I know that south of I-80 will revolt with arms and pitchforks before they let Chicago run their lives.

We have a Governor, House Speaker, Senate Leader, Secretary of State, and ALL other state-wide offices held by Chicago Democrats. My nightmare is already a reality.

And in November, another Chicago Democrat will try to take the White House. There is nowhere to run.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by legion

There is nowhere to run.

Like I said...sunny lovely AZ...the sand is hot, the sky is blinding, the water is...not water, and the AZ presidential candidate is better for you than the IL presidential candidate

But you can carry your 6 shooter on your hip into McDonalds.

[legion]

I'd love to move out-of-state. Unfortunately my job is tied to this area. My wife's family is close-by. It's cheap to live here.

If I were to go anywhere, it would be close to my family in Florida.

[HardDrive]

I agree with much of what jyl said above.

I would like to see a training requirement for purchase of gun, and a further requirement if you wish to purchase a hand gun. Those with military service and those already in legal possesion of a gun are granfathered in. Like jyl, suggested, no need to 'pass', but the information about a citizens responsiblities should be presented before an 18 year old can buy a .40 that holds 15 rounds.

I think a '21 and older' rule with a training requirement for rifles that hold more than 10 rounds would be a good idea. Again, military kids are exempt, not need to pass, just show up and listen.

I honestly think we would have less problems if kids go some real information about guns, even if its just a one day class. As it stands now, kids who have never had any relationship to guns other than video games and the media can walk in and buy a very powerful weapon, not questions asked. This needs to change, and I think it is up to gun enthusiasts to reach out and push for these changes.

[Jim Richards]

Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand. Whether or not the (locality/state/federal) gov't wants to require training is debatable, but the gun owner/user needs to know what responsibilites they've assumed by exercising their rights.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

I agree with much of what jyl said above.

I would like to see a training requirement for purchase of gun, and a further requirement if you wish to purchase a hand gun. Those with military service and those already in legal possesion of a gun are granfathered in. Like jyl, suggested, no need to 'pass', but the information about a citizens responsiblities should be presented before an 18 year old can buy a .40 that holds 15 rounds.

I think a '21 and older' rule with a training requirement for rifles that hold more than 10 rounds would be a good idea. Again, military kids are exempt, not need to pass, just show up and listen.

I just can't believe all these restrictions I'm reading that serious folks think will reduce crime or accidents. Why should I have to take a course to buy a gun when I don't have to take one to buy a car? How about some basics civics quiz before you're allowed to vote or criticize the gubmint? Plenty of folks with military experience haven't fired a gun since basic training. Why should they get a pass? What difference does it make how many rounds a gun holds? I hear about cops having AD's all the time. And these guys are supposed to be the experts!

I've had to take classes for two of the four states' CCW's I have/had. I didn't learn a thing in either of them other than some legal anecdotes, certainly nothing about shooting. I saw plenty of folks in those classes "qualify" on the range by barely hitting the target while I was doing 1-2" groups. Yet, we all passed. If you think our drivers license tests are outrageously easy, you need to go to a CCW class and range qual. It's unreal and doesn't make me feel any safer at all.

[911boost]

+1 to what Rick says. My CCW class was a joke, and basically a way for the "instructor" to vent his personal and political beliefs.

On a side note, the "instructor" actually gave me a hard time about driving a Subaru and asked if I was a commie lib. When I responded that my WRX was a much better car in every way that his Magnum PI piece of crap 308 that he was driving, he didn't like that much.

Bill

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Why should I have to take a course to buy a gun when I don't have to take one to buy a car?

Buy a car: No. Operate a car: yes. Buy a gun: ??? Operate a gun: ???

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Buy a car: No. Operate a car: yes. Buy a gun: ??? Operate a gun: ???

I don't have to take a class to operate a car. I just have to pass the licensing test. Besides, I don't recall anything in the Bill of Rights about the right to drive a car. It's a prvilege, not a right.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by BSiple

+1 to what Rick says. My CCW class was a joke, and basically a way for the "instructor" to vent his personal and political beliefs.

On a side note, the "instructor" actually gave me a hard time about driving a Subaru and asked if I was a commie lib. When I responded that my WRX was a much better car in every way that his Magnum PI piece of crap 308 that he was driving, he didn't like that much.

Bill

Well, I will say that the instuctor I had for my VA CCW could shoot so well, he could draw smiley faces. He was a true marksman and said he wnet through about 50k rounds a year. He's the kind of guy that really can shoot the way Hollywood portrays guns. But that had nothing to do with our class.

BTW, when it came time range qualify, the instructor said he had guns for us to use. I asked if I could use my Commander, which I had just bought and not yet even fired. He said, "You want to qualify with that?" I said, "Well, I'm gonna be carrying it, so yes." Then he asked if anyone else in the class wanted to use their own guns. EVERY single one of them went to get their guns from their cars.

[Jim Richards]

Richard, you keep getting own v. operate, and training v. taking tests v. taking classes mixed up in your responses. I'm not advocating that (local/state/federal) gov't codify anything, but am willing to concede that training in some fashion is a prudent thing for operating a gun (car).