help with my wife's Jetta VR6

imaircooled · 06-18-2008, 06:41 AM

So, I've been driving my wife's car to work because it much better on gas than my truck. I get in the car in the morning and it starts just like normal. After work at about 6pm when it's nice and warm outside (in the 80s....not too hot) I get in the car and turn the key....and get nothing at all. All the lights come on and everything works. The starter doesn't even click. I sat at a gas station for 20 minutes turning the key until it all of the sudden cranked and started. About a year ago I had the starter replaced. Could it be the starter again? I believe there is some type of switch on the clutch to allow the starter to engage because you can't start the car without the clutch pushed in. The car is a 1997 Jetta VR6 5-speed. Thankfully a 5-speed because I can get it started by rolling down a hill or getting a push.
Thanks for the help,
Chris

Neilk · 06-18-2008, 07:14 AM

I had that problem in my brother's Audi A4 once. I started pressing the clutch pedal up and down and it did something to the clutch safety switch and the car started up after experiencing the same symptoms as you.

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

Something similar happened with my sweetie's '97 Jetta - brake interlock switch. Look up and behind the brake pedal for a green bodied switch.
-Chris

Jims5543 · 06-18-2008, 07:21 AM

Congrats!! You have been Cisero'd.

BlueSideUp · 06-18-2008, 08:22 AM

Check your ignition switch. My brother had the same problem with his 1997 GTI. His switch wore out and eventually it allowed the starter to remain engaged after the engine was running. The result was the starter melting down accompanied by smoke and probably some flames. It killed the battery before things got really exciting.

You have to remove the steering wheel to replace the ignition lock cylinder but it's not an impossible job. Next time it happens try wiggling the key around to get it to make contact if you really need to get somewhere. Make sure the starter doesn't stay engaged though, you'll end up with a Car-B-Que.

osidak · 06-18-2008, 08:41 AM

I would say the clutch switch - reach behind the pedal and unplug it if it happens again

NICKG · 06-18-2008, 08:53 AM

are you sure it has a clutch interlock switch? Most VW cars of the era did not...none of mine did. I would figure it being a bad ignition switch...especially if you have more than a few things on the keyring...next time it does it...jiggle the key while turning it.

onewhippedpuppy · 06-18-2008, 08:55 AM

Welcome to Volkswagen.

imaircooled · 06-18-2008, 10:29 AM

Neil - I moved the car a little and messed around with the clutch...that may have helped start it when I was leaving work or maybe it was coincidence. I'm not sure. I hope that it's just that switch...sounds the easiest.

Chris - I'll try the brake interlock switch....sounds logical.

Jim - I've seen your thread and I'd be very frustrated but we've been very happy with this car. She bought it while we were in college around 1999 or so with about 24,000 miles and it now has almost 170,000...it's been a great car but you could be onto something because things are starting to go wrong....but it is an 11 year old daily driver.

BlueSideUp - I moved my key around and all over and it didn't seem to help...looks like other symptoms of ignition switch going bad is other electronics not working all the time and everything else works. I'll keep that in mind....but, man, I don't wanna remove the steering wheel.

Osidak - I hope that's what it is.

Nick - nope not sure it has a clutch interlock switch. I haven't looked yet. Like I said, I moved the key around, in and out...all that and didn't seem to help.

Onewhippedpuppy - Thank you very much...in my best Elvis voice.

Thanks everyone. I'll be taking a look tonight to see what is wrong. I'll let you know.

Thanks again,
Chris

osidak · 06-18-2008, 10:43 AM

a 97 should have a clutch interlock - the one my TDI died - never fixed it as I kinda like being able to start with out pushing the clutch in.

good luck - switch is easy and cheap.

imaircooled · 06-18-2008, 04:54 PM

So Doc,
I've tried to take pictures of a switch attached to the clutch arm. The switch I've taken pictures of is towards the driver's seat on the clutch arm. It engages when the clutch is depressed. Is this the clutch interlock switch or is that switch towards the engine from the clutch arm? Sorry the pictures aren't the greatest.

The long straight black thing is the clutch arm and the white end of the switch is what stops touching the clutch arm when it's depressed hopefully allowing the starter to turn. Is this the one? The body of the switch is above the white end. These pictures are taken from the floor looking up.

The picture below and the last picture show the switch's body a little better.

Thanks again everyone,
Chris

imaircooled · 06-18-2008, 06:15 PM

Well, it doesn't look like that's the correct switch. There was a white connector on the top of the switch. I pulled that and tried to start the car without the clutch pushed in and it didn't start. I then pulled the rest of the switch off and tried to start the car again but it wouldn't without the clutch pushed in but started when I depressed the clutch. I'm having a hard time getting my head down in there to see what is behind the clutch arm. Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks
Chris

osidak · 06-18-2008, 09:14 PM

i can think of only one switch on the clutch pedal........ when i am not about to fall asleep (after 1 am here) I will take another look

onewhippedpuppy · 06-19-2008, 06:11 AM

There should be a simple contact switch in there somewhere. If you jumper across the terminals in the connector, it should bypass the switch.

dtw · 06-19-2008, 06:12 AM

Had this problem on 2 VWs, both times was ignition switch. In each case the car was a hand-me-down from my parents, who both hang about 10 pounds of keys and other garbage from their keyrings. Bad juju for ignition switch.

john70t · 07:03 AM

The car can be push started consistently, so fuel and ignition module/relays can be ruled out along with the "on" key circuit.

The clutch switch and the "start" circuit of the ignition switch are suspect, but what about the starter itself?
-The ignition switch in the "start" position sends power to the solenoid. That connector could be loose at the solenoid.
-Starter solenoid benzels which stick sometimes can be "fixed" with some light hammer-taps.

Here's how it works:
The 12V from the ign switch(control circuit) first pops the starter gear out to engage the flywheel with a "click", which results in the internal switch(load circuit) drawing heavy amps through the thick red wire from the battery to spin the motor.
It could just be a sticking benzel.

Check if there's 12V supplied to the starter solenoid (small wire) when cranking, and all connection are tight and non-corroded.
Hot conditions are prime for electronics failure, but it could be something simple like the starter, bad clutch switch, or bad ign switch.

wrecktech · 06-19-2008, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtw

Had this problem on 2 VWs, both times was ignition switch. In each case the car was a hand-me-down from my parents, who both hang about 10 pounds of keys and other garbage from their keyrings. Bad juju for ignition switch.

There is a guy here that does nothing but replace ignition switches on GMs full time because of people having a zillion keys on their key ring.

imaircooled · 06-20-2008, 04:53 AM

I'll be checking the solenoid and starter and their connections tonight. Hopefully it's something like that.
Thanks again for everyone's help.

I'll be parking at the top of hills for a couple days.
Chris

imaircooled · 07-02-2008, 12:45 PM

Thanks for everyone's help.....the culprit was............the ignition switch. I don't want to ever replace an ignition switch again (actually wasn't too bad but....) so, we have stripped down our key rings and now have the lightweight racing version key ring. Thanks for everyone's time helping us out.
Chris