"Firefighter" rant.

[DavidI]

Based on Moses' account of this PARTICULAR fireman, I agree with his opinion. I believe he should volunteer to relieve his brothers on the line. To sit back while others take all the risks seems to go against the grain of people drawn to that type of profession.

Almost all firefighters I have met and worked with have been great guys. As was said earlier, there are mostly good people in any profession.

On a side note, I saw MMarsh at riot training recently. He is part of a motorcade tactical squad. Their precision was amazing. I am a ground pounder leading some of the biggest, ugliest, maturist, experienced cops in my Department. We had a good time, David

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

Mike, my comment was not meant to disparage all police officers. I'm the last person to bash a cop. So please accept my apology.
Here in NJ, the fire dept is in charge of all accident scenes, until the victim(s) and fire /hazmat dangers has been removed, and the scene stabilized. It is State law. I have went head to head numerous times with the police on who runs the scene, and what to do at an incident. Not every cop, but a few of them, especially the younger guys. They expect the fire fighters to direct traffic for them while they oversee the scene. BS!! At one serious accidenton a major busy hwy, I wanted two lanes shut down and traffic diverted, because the traffic was too close to where we where working on a victim. One of my men was almost run down. The officer refused. Said its his road, he will make the decision. I was adamant about it. He got in my face threatened to lock me up. I stayed calm, walked to my vehicle, got on the phone with the police chief. Four mins later the road was being shut down. After the scene was cleaned up, he came over and apologized.
One of the things I expect them to do is some crowd control, not letting onlookers too close to the scene. Which Ive encountered alot. I look for the officers and they are stannding off by there cars talking and laughing.
Like I said the vast majority are good , but a few just really pi$$ed me off.

Vinny, No apology needed. I can definitely understand your frustration in the situation above. That shouldn't happen. Sounds like it won't happen again with that officer. Here in California, I would assume it would be the same as far as who is in charge of an accident scene, but I've never seen any conflict between the police and fire department. We both have our jobs to do and we just git er done.

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by DavidI

On a side note, I saw MMarsh at riot training recently. He is part of a motorcade tactical squad. Their precision was amazing. I am a ground pounder leading some of the biggest, ugliest, maturist, experienced cops in my Department. We had a good time, David

That was good training. Looking forward to doing it again.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

Vinny, No apology needed. I can definitely understand your frustration in the situation above. That shouldn't happen. Sounds like it won't happen again with that officer. Here in California, I would assume it would be the same as far as who is in charge of an accident scene, but I've never seen any conflict between the police and fire department. We both have our jobs to do and we just git er done.

Funny thing with that officer, after that happened the police Capt called me and told me he was gonna put the guy on desk duty for a week or two because of that incident. I said I thought that was a little extreme. He just needed his ego checked a bit and explained scene protocal. 90% of the time we work good together.
If you want to see conflict, go to NYC. FDNY and NYPD are always fighting with eachother at scenes. To the point where it has come to fists and shoving matches. Pretty bad.

[angelny911]

late start to this chime ,would like to know what moses does for a living ,most guys like that are called (buffs,vollies ) in the field but if it wasn't for these guys and other paid firefighters during 9/11 who came from all over the USA and helped at ground zero...it would have been a diffcult task on this day and the days that followed ,they show up at our memorials,our funerals,they gave there funeral wagons so when we had 21 funeral or memorials a day each firefighter had a proper burial .moses just stop 1 day ask him about his job or position he holds ...he may be an investigator or maybe a volunteer with a health condition that does'nt allow him to respond to fires ...but still volunteer's his time .....they still deserve some respect .....thanks

F.D.N.Y
retired after 20 years due to 9/11 illness
worked in Da Bronx 4,800 runs a year
plenty of broken bones,burns,and injuries to prove it

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by angelny911

late start to this chime ,would like to know what moses does for a living ,most guys like that are called (buffs,vollies ) in the field but if it wasn't for these guys and other paid firefighters during 9/11 who came from all over the USA and helped at ground zero...it would have been a diffcult task on this day and the days that followed ,they show up at our memorials,our funerals,they gave there funeral wagons so when we had 21 funeral or memorials a day each firefighter had a proper burial .moses just stop 1 day ask him about his job or position he holds ...he may be an investigator or maybe a volunteer with a health condition that does'nt allow him to respond to fires ...but still volunteer's his time .....they still deserve some respect .....thanks

F.D.N.Y
retired after 20 years due to 9/11 illness
worked in Da Bronx 4,800 runs a year
plenty of broken bones,burns,and injuries to prove it

Moses is a Surgeon.

Can see your point re the guys possible suitability for particular jobs.

Like you will have permanent memories of the processions following 911, none fond.

Remember when the East End burned down a few years back?

Seemed like everyone and their mother stepped up on that one, think that's the situation that Moses is reacting to.

Thanks for your contribution and be well.

[Moses]

California now has firefighters from as far away as New Zealand and Australia. Some of the Butte County firefighters are going on 4 straight weeks in the field without relief. A friend of mine has a son fighting the fires in Butte County. He has lost 20 pounds in three weeks. He's exhausted. My neighbor? He's going camping this weekend.

[cstreit]

Moses, now I know from years of reading your posts that you are a considerate and caring guy. ...but to play devils advocate,

"Well that Moses guy, there are all these people in the world that need medical care. Why is he charging everyone for his services when there is so much that he could give back of his time... There he sits drinking a beer while there are helpless children that need operations that can't afford them. Look at 'im in his fancy Porsche not caring about them!"

Now certainly there are plenty of extenuating circumstances with your neighbor, but I don't think you can necessarily fault him too much for just doing the job for which he was hired. (assuming he does?)

[legion]

I know three firefighters.

One (the guy I already posted about) is a jerk. He was a jerk before he became a firefighter, and now he's just a jerk who treats his badge as a get-out-of-jail-free card.

One is my neighbor down the street. I'm glad to have him as a neighbor. He's just a nice guy who's fun to have around. I did notice that he put a vintage fire hydrant in front of his house, and some of the other firefighters put an "out of use" bag over it a few weeks ago.

One is the friend of a friend. I don't know him well but he also seems like a nice guy.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by cstreit

Moses, now I know from years of reading your posts that you are a considerate and caring guy. ...but to play devils advocate,

"Well that Moses guy, there are all these people in the world that need medical care. Why is he charging everyone for his services when there is so much that he could give back of his time...

I have done emergency room call for nearly 20 years. When called for an emergency, I have never even asked a patient if they had insurance. I'm a physician. It's my duty to do everything I can. Usually I get paid. Often I do not. It comes with the job.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by TGTIW

I would expect a Police Officer to treat all the people that are pulled over for a violation the same, regardless of profession. What aspects of a person's day job gives them a pass to break laws?

here in real life, that is not how it goes

When my wife was working as an ER nurse, she was pulled over for speeding on the way to work, got a warning. Does not happen always, everywhere, but is extremely common

Moses, you usually get paid for the ER stuff? I get paid on maybe 50% of that stuff. Your neighbor is kind of a douche

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by Moses

I have done emergency room call for nearly 20 years. When called for an emergency, I have never even asked a patient if they had insurance. I'm a physician. It's my duty to do everything I can. Usually I get paid. Often I do not. It comes with the job.

I figured you would Moses, as I mentioned I am definitely NOT putting your motives into question, I'm just saying depending on someones persective, you could say "Sure, you do THAT, but you COULD do more."

I guess I'm trying to add perspective, but the comparative isn't a good one.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by angelny911

.moses just stop 1 day ask him about his job or position he holds ...he may be an investigator or maybe a volunteer with a health condition that does'nt allow him to respond to fires ...but still volunteer's his time .....they still deserve some respect .....thanks
it

Good point Angel !
We have guys in my dept that show up once a month. But if he does what he has to at that call, I'm happy. Its getting tough for volunteer depts. Its not like it used to be. No longer small town USA where everyone lives and work in town. People have long commutes to work. I spend 3 hours a day driving back and forth to NYC. Family commitments have grown. Guys cant put the time in like they used to.
Also every FF has his "nitch" whether its an interior guy, a truckie, a driver and so on... some are cut out for certain jobs some are not.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by angelny911

l ...he may be an investigator or maybe a volunteer with a health condition that does'nt allow him to respond to fires

Nope. He's a full-time professional firefighter. He makes more than $100,000/year. He has been trained (at public expense) to fight wilderness fires, but chooses not to.

[Rikao4]

well call a TV station..maybe he will explain it to them.
or set his house on fire..help will be a while, cause real firefighters are busy.
Rika

[VINMAN]

You didnt say this was a full time paid guy. Theres got to be a reason for him staying back, other than just his refusal. That would never fly in most paid depts.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Overpaid Slacker

TG --
Your expectations simply don't comport with reality. For starters, LEOs, by and large, take care of other LEOs -- whether it's in the same uniform, that of a different state, or state vs. federal, etc. It's idealism to believe otherwise.

"... a pass to break laws." is a bit of an overstatement. Mostly, what LEOs will do for one another (and, often for FF or other public servant types) is abbreviate the hassle of punishment. So, you're pulled over (let's say) talk to the cop, find out you share a public service commitment involving periods of imminent danger to your life/health and s/he says "just slow down." Or "here's a ticket for stopping on pavement, instead of 85 in a 55".

You got pulled, spoke to the cop (the pointy end of the law enforcement/executive branch spear) and s/he used his/her judgment. It's what the DA/prosecutor/whatever is going to do when you get to court with a ticket anyway...

This courtesy amongst brothers in blue shouldn't get someone out of a more serious crime, obviously, but it's part of how people just get along. Why would you "expect" differently?

Cops also let civilians off with warnings all the dayum time. And thank Jeebus for that!

JP

In the repossession field i get a good deal of professional courtesy from cops, and i'm not even a government employee. Usually the only cops that break our balls are the deskbound types that have to process the report. Those ones can be total jerk-offs.

Really any cop that's writing a minor traffic violation against another cop or a fireman is a dick in life, and should probably have his ass kicked on the spot.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

You didnt say this was a full time paid guy. Theres got to be a reason for him staying back, other than just his refusal. That would never fly in most paid depts.

Out here, participation in the strike force is strictly voluntary.

Here's a recent picture of one of our local firefighters. These guys are doing heroic work.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

You didnt say this was a full time paid guy. Theres got to be a reason for him staying back, other than just his refusal. That would never fly in most paid depts.

Agreed. And to be honest, if they're letting him sit on his ass for 100k a year, that's their own damn fault, not his.

Originally Posted by Moses

Out here, participation in the strike force is strictly voluntary.

Here's a recent picture of one of our local firefighters. These guys are doing heroic work.

What part of voluntary is it that is so vexing to you? I could see if you were in the woods fighting fires and he wasn't, you being a bit annoyed, but you're not out there shoveling dirt either, are you?

I have no doubt- based on your description- that the guy is a tool, but if he wasn't doing his job and they're letting him not do his job, then it's the FD's own damn fault.

[3.2 CAB]

Snipey, I generally don't respond to BS, but I will this time, because you seem to have some kind of problem with me, due to the somewhat personal attack, type of comments directed specifically towards me. It appears that you seem to make a lot of presumptions about what I posted.

Originally Posted by 3.2 CAB

I would hate to live next to a guy like that. Probably one of the type that has the high and tight haircut, and wears fatigue pants and tactical boots, instead of the usual dickies type of uniform slacks and oxford shoes. He also probably wanted to be a cop, but could not pass to do that, so he tried the FD. The bad part about it, is that he probably does not even think he is the d-bag that he is. Sounds like a lot of the ones that I have pulled over, through the years, that expected to get a pass, on whatever infraction or infractions that I made the stop for, just because they were a fireman.

Originally Posted by m21sniper

You give firemen tickets?

Sounds to me like YOU'RE the dick.

Originally Posted by m21sniper

In the repossession field i get a good deal of professional courtesy from cops, and i'm not even a government employee. Usually the only cops that break our balls are the deskbound types that have to process the report. Those ones can be total jerk-offs.

Really any cop that's writing a minor traffic violation against another cop or a fireman is a dick in life, and should probably have his ass kicked on the spot.

Gee, I am trying to figure out how snipey could have determined that in my 20+yr LEO career, that I actually wrote any tickets to firemen, or other LEO's. I never stated that I ever wrote any tickets to anybody that were of those professions. I also never stated anything about the type of infractions, which he assumed were "minor traffic violations" Sure, I did stop a LOT of LEO's and FF's over the years, for various infractions. These included everything from just speeding, DUI, even up to fleeing the scene of an accident/with major injuries sustained by the people that they had hit. But... everyone that I stopped, for whatever reasons, it was up to the actions of the violator, that determined the outcome of the stop.
I can truly say that I never wrote a fellow officer or fireman a ticket for BS traffic infractions. That does not say that I did not make some of the asshats sweat it out a bit. They were the ones, that the first thing they did was badge you, and expected for you to just say, "sorry about pulling you over, just go ahead and go." I can also say that I never wrote a nurse or a medical doctor a ticket either. Both of those have been there for me, and saved my life, the three different times that I had been shot, or the couple of times that I had been stabbed. There were others that were also, very low on the "getting a ticket list", due to their profession, big-truck drivers, for one example. I can also state, that I have never written a "warning ticket" why waste my time and ink doing that for something that is useless. A small trade secret: if the police officer gets out of his unit with his ticket book, it is more likely that there will be a citation written up. It is something along the order of pre-dispositioned to write a ticket. I never exited my car with my ticket book. I wanted to hear their story, and if they were honest, and there was anyway that I could give them break, I did. I never rode a desk.

But one thing I can say, there was no professional courtesy extended to a repo-man. If they did not have all of the proper paperwork and the court seizure order papers, they went to jail, just as any other car thief would have.

So, if all of this makes YOU think, that I am a dick, I could really give a damn about whatever YOU think. Also, about the "ass kicked on the spot" if it was YOU that was going to attempt to do that, there would have been a serious, negative outcome, before I had to retire. This is because, as a police officer, you DO NOT get your ass kicked, because if you let that happen, they then have access to your weapon.